Invader- EMG problems

[schloepenutz]

I scored a Gibson Explorer with a SH2 Jazz in the neck and an Invader in the bridge. It sounded great...but being an EMG fan from way back I figured the 81/85 config would be even better.....well, I dont think so. I lost a lot of bottom end grunt on the bridge and some of the warm tone on the neck if my ears arn't deceiving me (I'm a litlle hard of hearing...) I would change everything back to the way it was but the Jazz pickup is of the multicolored (black/cream variety) an I just cant stand the looks. So I leave the 85 in the neck and wire up the Invader in the bridge as I have read that this does work and is possible if I run a 500 pot instead if the 25 EMGpot. The 85 works OK but the Invader seems to have lost a ton of tone, kinda like playin with your tone knob at 1 or 2. If I have to put the Jazz back in for some reason or another I will but then it will have to be painted...Does this work? Maybe someones got an idea for me....Thanks much....this is a great forum and I am learning quite bit about things although I am worried my guitar will have no finish on the back from the weekly soldering jobs she will receive...

 

[supernosher]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

Both pickups meet at the output jack, so the Invader is being sucked down by the lower value EMG pot. It's still in the circuit of the Invader, and the EMG is in the circuit of the Invader. I never heard that you could mix the two.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

You can mix them.

Explorers have a volume for each pickup and a master tone (3 total controls), right? If so, put a 25k for the 85's volume, and a 500k for the Invader. I would choose one of them to use the tone control, and use the correct value for whichever pup you choose.

If you decide you like the Jazz, don't paint it. Tons and tons of people here dig zebra pickups, and I bet you could trade it for a black one in the Trading Post pretty easily.

 

[schloepenutz]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

Yup your right, 2 volumes and 1 tone. I am running a 5oo for the Invader, 25 for the EMG. the value for the tone contriol is 25 as well....one that came with the 85. Do I just disconect the Invader volume pot from the rest of the pot circuits and ground it to the bridge instead? No tone control for the Invader does not bother me as it was great with the tone cranked.....Thanks

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

I wanna say yes, but check out a 2 volume/1 tone diagram and modify it as necessary.

Good luck.

 

[supernosher]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

its obvious that there are 2 vol pots...The OP said he is having output issues with the invader...when the 2 outputs are connected (aka the invader is only 25k ohms away from the ground) you get leakage. So that's why ur output is so low.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

Both pickups meet at the output jack, so the Invader is being sucked down by the lower value EMG pot.

Don't the pickups meet at the switch?

Unless you wire your pickups differently than I do, the grounds go to the same place (which doesn't matter in this case), but the leads go to the switch, which could only cause an issue if the pups are on at the same time.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

My understanding is passive and active just don't mix.

 

[Diocletian]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

Why don't you just buy a bobbin topper for the Jazz, make it all black? Dirt cheap, and they work great.

http://www.universaljems.com/cart/bobbin.htm

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

My understanding is passive and active just don't mix.

That's not true.

I've had two guitars setup with active & passive pickups together, and remember playing a Strat at a Music Go Round that had an EMG 81 in the bridge and two Fender singles.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

I've run an 85/PAF combo in a few guitars. I just wire each to its own required pots and then to the stereo jack. I've had no problems with volume drop, noise, or popping when switching.

If you're getting volume drop between an Invader bridge and an EMG 85 neck, I think its just because the high output 85 being in the neck spot especially, is just overpowering the Invader.

 

[scottish]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

This is from the EMG website FAQs

Can I mix EMG's with passive pickups?
It is possible to mix EMG's with passive pickups. There are three possible wiring configurations; one is better than the other two.

Use the high impedance (250K-500K) volume and tone controls. The problem is that the high impedance controls act more like a switch to the EMG's. The passive pickups, however, will work fine. If you have a guitar with two pickups and two volume pots, with a three-way switch, there is another alternative. Use the 25K pots for the EMG, and the 250K pots for the passive pickup. This way you can use one or the other with no adverse affects, but with the switch in the middle position the passive pickup will have reduced gain and response.

Use the low-impedance (25K) volume and tone controls provided with the EMG's. The problem here is that the passive pickups will suffer a reduction in gain and loss of high-frequency response.

This is the best alternative. Install an EMG-PA-2 on the passive pickups. There are two benefits to doing this. With the trimpot on the PA-2, you can adjust the gain of the passive pickups to match the EMG's. The PA-2 acts as an impedance matching device so you can use the low-impedance EMG controls (25K) without affecting the tone of the passive pickups. You will also be able to use other EMG accessory circuits such as the SPC, RPC, EXB, EXG, etc. For this application, we recommend ordering the PA-2 without the switch for easy installation on the inside of a guitar.


hope this helps some

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

Use the low-impedance (25K) volume and tone controls provided with the EMG's. The problem here is that the passive pickups will suffer a reduction in gain and loss of high-frequency response.

This assumes you're hooking your passives up to the same 25k pot. Wire them each to their own proper value pots and this won't happen, although EMG would love for you to buy their $45 gadget.

 

[tc]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

I've run an 85/PAF combo in a few guitars. I just wire each to its own required pots and then to the stereo jack. I've had no problems with volume drop, noise, or popping when switching.

If you're getting volume drop between an Invader bridge and an EMG 85 neck, I think its just because the high output 85 being in the neck spot especially, is just overpowering the Invader.

I know what you said is totally possible...but it's not every day you hear someone talk about a pickup overpowering an Invader hahah

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

It sounds to me like wiring the EMG85 to the EMG pots, then the Invader to JUST the volume pot, will make it work better.

 

[D-EJ915]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

I know what you said is totally possible...but it's not every day you hear someone talk about a pickup overpowering an Invader hahah

invader is definitely higher output than the 85 is though

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

It sounds to me like wiring the EMG85 to the EMG pots, then the Invader to JUST the volume pot, will make it work better.

Exactly.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

invader is definitely higher output than the 85 is though

I'm not so sure about that, the 85 is a pretty hot pickup. In fact, according to EMG, it has more measurable output than even an 81. It just doesn't seem like it because the 81's EQ and voicing make it sound more percussive. But make no mistake, the 85 is one hot tamale.

 

[supernosher]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

the way it works is electricity finds the path of least resistance (the 25k pot) so even if the Invader is hooked up to the 500k pot it will drain to ground through the 25k pot because they meet at the output jack. I may suck at explaining things but ur all wrong about it working with just a seperate volume pot. You need that EMG gizmo to convert the passive pickup to active status.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Invader- EMG problems

the way it works is electricity finds the path of least resistance (the 25k pot) so even if the Invader is hooked up to the 500k pot it will drain to ground through the 25k pot because they meet at the output jack. I may suck at explaining things but ur all wrong about it working with just a seperate volume pot. You need that EMG gizmo to convert the passive pickup to active status.

Well you can lecture about how electricity works, but I've actually had my guitars wired like this and they work fine.

Kind of silly that your trying to theorize why electricity won't allow my guitar to work wired that way when I'm sitting here with it working great while wired that way.