Invader problems

[nrothstein]

I bought a brand new neck position invader from guitar center about a year ago and combined it in a BC Rich ironbird with a invader bridge I already had. The install went pretty well nothing I haven't done before, but i noticed it was sounding particular in the end, very weak and very bassy, just shrugged it off and assumed that's how the neck is supposed to sound. Now a year later after much frustration I took apart the iron bird. Chucked the old electrical and tested the pickups.....The bridge reads 15.8 close enough I guess, then I tested the brand new neck pickup I bought.....No reading........The black and white wires (north coil?) read 3.5 and the green and red have no reading.....This is a brand new pick up and shouldn't be happening. what can i do...I'm assuming there's no warranty at this point.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Invader problems

You gotta take the pup out of the guitar and measure each coil individually. What you read might be some (unintentional) parallel wiring. If the pup in series reads 16 KOhms, then each coil should be about 8 KOhm, so in parallel this becomes 4 KOhm.

 

[nrothstein]

Re: Invader problems

The pickups ARE out of the guitar. My test was off the straight wires of a uninstalled pickup. Again....
Bridge pickup
Bare/green + black - 15.8 (no problem?)
Neck pickup
Bare/green + black - no reading (both coils)
Green + red - no reading (north coil?)
Black + white - 3.5 ( south coil?)
I just read that the invader neck was only 7.0 so 3.5 does make sense for one coil. But how can a coil be dead on a brand new pick up

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Invader problems

But how can a coil be dead on a brand new pick up

Because you killed it. Probably broke the green wire where it connects to the coil.

 

[nrothstein]

Re: Invader problems

Is something like this fixable

 

[jonsick]

Re: Invader problems

I had a duncan distortion replaced for me by the distributor after a good 18 months of owning it in the UK.

It's worth a punt to ask your distro or Duncan about it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Invader problems

Is something like this fixable

Sometimes. But can be extremely difficult.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Invader problems

I would contact Seymour Duncan on their home page. It can be very delicate work, and I know I don't trust myself with such tiny wires. It is a repair the factory can do easily, though.

 

[allstarrme]

Invader problems

Because you killed it. Probably broke the green wire where it connects to the coil.

None of this is true^.

There's a cap across one coil in the invader neck, it will always read 0 on a meter. Most people don't know this.

I had a neck invader once, some people like them, personally I thought it was the worst pickup ever, but it was a seven string version so maybe the 6 is less terrible .

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Invader problems

None of this is true^.

There's a cap across one coil in the invader neck, it will always read 0 on a meter. Most people don't know this.

I had a neck invader once, some people like them, personally I thought it was the worst pickup ever, but it was a seven string version so maybe the 6 is less terrible .

Got a useful suggestion of what the problem may be?

 

[allstarrme]

Re: Invader problems

I would ask to check the wiring but can't if it's all unhooked and taken apart. Maybe it was wired split or parallel, guess we'll never know.

The invader IS bassy and the treble response is rolled off. Putting some super distortion poles in it helps a bit. Changing out the magnet for something alnico can help.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Invader problems

I would ask to check the wiring but can't if it's all unhooked and taken apart. Maybe it was wired split or parallel, guess we'll never know.

The invader IS bassy and the treble response is rolled off. Putting some super distortion poles in it helps a bit. Changing out the magnet for something alnico can help.

That's fine, but it doesn't address his problem. And, in fact, to analyse the pup you WANT it disconnected from the guitar wiring...only one coil is producing sound ("The black and white wires (north coil?) read 3.5 and the green and red have no reading"). What would you say is causing no electrical continuity through one of the coils but a normal reading through the other? The cap across one coil? Explain to me how that works.

He says he has replaced pups before and that there were no problems with this process, but from the beginning it sounded like only one coil was working.

You say my suggestion that a wire might be broken is "all wrong". I am certainly open to correction, but only if there is some substance/fact associated with that correction. So, give it to me.

 

[allstarrme]

Invader problems

There is a cap wired across the coil internally under the tape on the coils, It will always read 0 because of the cap, which will look like the coil isn't working when it works fine. You can untape the coils and check across the cap for the real reading, but I would look at the wiring and soldier joints before I would condemn the pickup.

Could it have a bad coil? Yes. Does it? Probably not.

A bad coil in normal humbucking series would have no sound, this one with the cap would allow some highs to pass through from the good coil so it would sound super thin like out of phase almost, which is the opposite of what he said it sounds like.

a simple search for neck invader will show this, maybe try reading up on this before giving bad advice to people.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Invader problems

Got your feathers ruffled a bit did we?

As far as giving bad advice, I really didn't. I only suggested that a wire may be broken (and yes, the pup would still work with a broken wire in one coil if it were wired in parallel).

I have experience with bridge Invaders and most other Duncan pups. No reason to believe that the neck Invader would be any different. Even you admitted that most people wouldn't know about the cap across one coil, but for some reason you don't want to give me the benefit of the doubt. In addition you condemn me for giving "bad advice" but the only "advice" you gave was that the pup is fine and working properly, but that he may want to change the magnet to get a more desirable tone? Also, you admit that it indeed could "have a bad coil", so my "advice", even by your admission, was not so far fetched.

So now, can you explain how the cap prevents a meter from reading electrical continuity yet it still permits an electric current to flow through it? (I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I have any degrees in electrical circuits, but I do understand most of the electrics involved with guitar circuitry). I suppose you totally understand the principles well enough to explain them to me.

 

[dmun1]

Re: Invader problems

I just unwrapped my very old Invader because one coil measured open, and found a 56n capacitor in series with the red/green coil. Measure after the cap, the coil's DCR is 3.59 KOhms.

I think this should roll off some bass response, so I have no idea why OP is suggesting is sounds bassy, but these neck pups have a lot lower DCR than the bridge Invaders, so combined with pickup height not maximized... maybe?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Invader problems

try and read dc resistance across a cap

 

[Artie]

Re: Invader problems

^ +1. The purpose of a cap is to block DC voltage. A pickups signal is AC and therefore isn't blocked. A meter uses DC to measure resistance, and so, a cap will block the reading.

This cap on an Invader, is exactly my de-mud mod for the 59. Obviously, I didn't invent the idea.