Invader with regular pole pieces?
- Thread starter TattooedCarrot
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TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
With that in mind Rodney, any idea what those poles actually do as far as tonal properties and what to expect from it without them?
Structurally, the Gibson Dirty Fingers is supposed to be the closest "other" pickup to the Invader in the way it's put togethr, but it doesn't have such poles. I was curious then if they were really that big a factor after all.
I'd like a Seymourized Iommi/Dirty Fingers type of pup. Something fat, hot, and clear, that will fit under a cover.
With that in mind Rodney, any idea what those poles actually do as far as tonal properties and what to expect from it without them?
Structurally, the Gibson Dirty Fingers is supposed to be the closest "other" pickup to the Invader in the way it's put togethr, but it doesn't have such poles. I was curious then if they were really that big a factor after all.
I'd like a Seymourized Iommi/Dirty Fingers type of pup. Something fat, hot, and clear, that will fit under a cover.
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
An overwound Full Shred with one row of standard screws, an overwound DD, are quick examples. The guitar it is going in is big big big factor for me.
Hope to help.
BTW- You have been a Duncan user for years bro, choose a pickup you really like (You are a Full Shred fan right) and decide what it might be missing. Or choose a pickup you think is close and decide what might be missing. You can break down the parameters alot faster that way.
Invader without the poles is no longer an Invader...but it might be something that still works for you.
Peace.
What to expect? Depends on what you use to replace them with...and even then I would only be guessing because so much depends on the giuitar IME.TattooedCarrot said:
There is no doubt about the role they play, they are a deciding factor in the outcome. As for the Dirty Fingers comparison, I can't say. I had a set for years and I don't think they sound anything alike. Both may be 'big' or 'fat' sounding but that would be the only similarity IMO.
Now that can be done. If you are willing to experiment a little I would venture a few options would get the result for you. Taking your guitars tone into consideration, I would formulate a pickup based on other pickup parameters.
An overwound Full Shred with one row of standard screws, an overwound DD, are quick examples. The guitar it is going in is big big big factor for me.
Hope to help.
BTW- You have been a Duncan user for years bro, choose a pickup you really like (You are a Full Shred fan right) and decide what it might be missing. Or choose a pickup you think is close and decide what might be missing. You can break down the parameters alot faster that way.
Invader without the poles is no longer an Invader...but it might be something that still works for you.
Peace.
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TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
This venture is looking for a bridge pup for my Gibson SG 61RI through a Budda Superdrive 80 and playing classic rock, 70's metal ala Sabbath, and bluesy metal stoner rock kinda stuff.
thanks !!
This venture is looking for a bridge pup for my Gibson SG 61RI through a Budda Superdrive 80 and playing classic rock, 70's metal ala Sabbath, and bluesy metal stoner rock kinda stuff.
thanks !!
Fusion1
Active member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Tatooed and Rodney, I recorded a similar passage twice. You have to decide which one has the Button head Invader poles, and the other hex poles. Let the fun begin:
Mystery Invader 1
Mystery Invader 2
The best idea is to listen to each one a few times to be able to compare accurately.
Tatooed and Rodney, I recorded a similar passage twice. You have to decide which one has the Button head Invader poles, and the other hex poles. Let the fun begin:
Mystery Invader 1
Mystery Invader 2
The best idea is to listen to each one a few times to be able to compare accurately.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
First one has more punch and clarity, second one sounds more muffled, less defined and almost has a chorus effect to it. I'm going to say #1 regular poles, #2 modded poles.
First one has more punch and clarity, second one sounds more muffled, less defined and almost has a chorus effect to it. I'm going to say #1 regular poles, #2 modded poles.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
I noticed that you have them named backwards. Your first one called #1 says INV2 in it's file extension and visa-versa. Just wanted to make sure you posted them correctly.
I noticed that you have them named backwards. Your first one called #1 says INV2 in it's file extension and visa-versa. Just wanted to make sure you posted them correctly.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Uh oh, that sounds like a setup :doh:
Fusion1 said:
Uh oh, that sounds like a setup :doh:
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
When you're ready, please give a complete review of your impressions.
When you're ready, please give a complete review of your impressions.
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Hey Fusion,
With all due honest respect to your effort, the comparison that you made won't make any difference in my perspective or opinion, primarily because my perspective is not a challenge, it is a reality that belongs to me.
My comments are based on the years I worked for Seymour Duncan and the countless 'tone' projects I have done for them after that (As well as the endless hours working with guitarests and bassist developing thier tone, countless experiments, working with other guitar companies, producing music and generally being a tone head). And this has been going on for years.
But....to be fair to you, I listened to both tracks. Both have a scooped-mid, metal tone IMO. Could be the Invader, could be a DD, could be a Rio Grande. Honestly I have no idea and I have to take your word for it. IMO they both sound very similiar.
Best to you.
BTW- The CCC (C5) was a user experiment that eventually went public. Maybe your Invader/Allen head combo will do the same!
Hope to help,
Rodney
Hey Fusion,
With all due honest respect to your effort, the comparison that you made won't make any difference in my perspective or opinion, primarily because my perspective is not a challenge, it is a reality that belongs to me.
My comments are based on the years I worked for Seymour Duncan and the countless 'tone' projects I have done for them after that (As well as the endless hours working with guitarests and bassist developing thier tone, countless experiments, working with other guitar companies, producing music and generally being a tone head). And this has been going on for years.
But....to be fair to you, I listened to both tracks. Both have a scooped-mid, metal tone IMO. Could be the Invader, could be a DD, could be a Rio Grande. Honestly I have no idea and I have to take your word for it. IMO they both sound very similiar.
Best to you.
BTW- The CCC (C5) was a user experiment that eventually went public. Maybe your Invader/Allen head combo will do the same!
Hope to help,
Rodney
Fusion1
Active member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Ok, Rodney I think you misunderstood the comparison. Both are Invaders, one with normal Invader button head cap screws, and the other with the hex poles as I pictured.
Tattooed, the Mystery Invader 1 was the hex poles, the Mystery Invader 2 was the original Invader.
Ok, Rodney I think you misunderstood the comparison. Both are Invaders, one with normal Invader button head cap screws, and the other with the hex poles as I pictured.
Tattooed, the Mystery Invader 1 was the hex poles, the Mystery Invader 2 was the original Invader.
Fusion1
Active member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Rodney, I didn't want to question your work at Seymour Duncan, I didn't even know you worked there. Im sure your job there is honorable in every way and we appreciate the work you do there. (Gosh I feel like Zell Miller giving John Kerry approval of his Vietnam service lol)
Anyways I did this friendly experiment to help out Tatooed decide if it would work for his situation as he wants to add a cover over the Invader. I just thought it was odd to place a great deal of significance over the button head caps for giving it it's Invader-like tone.
Rodney, I didn't want to question your work at Seymour Duncan, I didn't even know you worked there. Im sure your job there is honorable in every way and we appreciate the work you do there. (Gosh I feel like Zell Miller giving John Kerry approval of his Vietnam service lol)
Anyways I did this friendly experiment to help out Tatooed decide if it would work for his situation as he wants to add a cover over the Invader. I just thought it was odd to place a great deal of significance over the button head caps for giving it it's Invader-like tone.
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Yea Rodney is the Duncan forum leader on the old boards before Evan took over. He's a good guy. And I appreciate the input from both of you. Thank you.
Fusion, outside of the clips, can you give your impressions? I like the first listed clip the best, it had more punch, at least in those particular recordings it did.
Yea Rodney is the Duncan forum leader on the old boards before Evan took over. He's a good guy. And I appreciate the input from both of you. Thank you.
Fusion, outside of the clips, can you give your impressions? I like the first listed clip the best, it had more punch, at least in those particular recordings it did.
Fusion1
Active member
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Tatooed while there was subtle difference, I heard the same thing as you did. The fuzziness is the reason I never really cared for the Invader. The hex poles did seem to tighten it up a little.
Rodney is right it does depend on the guitar you use it in. Before I got my DD in my SG a long time ago I tried an Invader and it was muddy as hell. Maybe with the hex poles it mihght have been just right. I don't think so though as it was M U D D Y!
Tattooed, I think I will try it with different settings, but in all honesty an Invader was made to play with high gain, so I can't see me going back with the button head screws as I prefer a tighter high end to a muddy fizzely one.
Tatooed while there was subtle difference, I heard the same thing as you did. The fuzziness is the reason I never really cared for the Invader. The hex poles did seem to tighten it up a little.
Rodney is right it does depend on the guitar you use it in. Before I got my DD in my SG a long time ago I tried an Invader and it was muddy as hell. Maybe with the hex poles it mihght have been just right. I don't think so though as it was M U D D Y!
Tattooed, I think I will try it with different settings, but in all honesty an Invader was made to play with high gain, so I can't see me going back with the button head screws as I prefer a tighter high end to a muddy fizzely one.
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
Hey my friend, actually I didn't think you were questioning me one bit...and I DON'T work for Seymour Duncan..Not as an employee anyway. At one time yes, but not for the last 4-5 years. I have however done multiple projects for them.
Even so...That doesn't change anything nor make my opinion any more valid. As I siad, my opinion and my perspective are not based on random information but experience, so I have to trust that. As far as your effort, everyone appreciates it!
Actually... Evan hired me,...He was my Boss (and friend) while I worked there...AND he has commissioned me as an independant for other many other Duncan projects over the past few years.
I was active on the original Duncan BBS back in 96' or 97' before I ever worked there and shortly after being hired I took over webmistress Kelly's job as BBS 'person'. In OCT 2000 I built the last YABB forums which you all quickly outgrew, Jeremy was asked to moderate, then Scott, then Robert S. etc etc. and the rest is history!
But back on topic, I think I installed my first Invader in the late 80's.
Too much affects tone...and the best/worst culprit is our ears.
Rock On Fusion!
Rodney
Fusion1 said:
Hey my friend, actually I didn't think you were questioning me one bit...and I DON'T work for Seymour Duncan..Not as an employee anyway. At one time yes, but not for the last 4-5 years. I have however done multiple projects for them.
Even so...That doesn't change anything nor make my opinion any more valid. As I siad, my opinion and my perspective are not based on random information but experience, so I have to trust that. As far as your effort, everyone appreciates it!
Actually... Evan hired me,...He was my Boss (and friend) while I worked there...AND he has commissioned me as an independant for other many other Duncan projects over the past few years.
I was active on the original Duncan BBS back in 96' or 97' before I ever worked there and shortly after being hired I took over webmistress Kelly's job as BBS 'person'. In OCT 2000 I built the last YABB forums which you all quickly outgrew, Jeremy was asked to moderate, then Scott, then Robert S. etc etc. and the rest is history!
But back on topic, I think I installed my first Invader in the late 80's.
Too much affects tone...and the best/worst culprit is our ears.
Rock On Fusion!
Rodney
Wattage
High Voltologist
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
I have to say I really liked the hex head clip better. I just recently used an Invader while doing some recording and I liked it a lot, I am surprised at what a noticable difference there was with the hex heads. I really assumed that it was more a cosmetic thing.
I have to say I really liked the hex head clip better. I just recently used an Invader while doing some recording and I liked it a lot, I am surprised at what a noticable difference there was with the hex heads. I really assumed that it was more a cosmetic thing.
Re: Invader with regular pole pieces?
In my opinion, the last 15 or 20% of any signature tone is found in the details...There is no doubt that an alnico 5 puts a JB where it is. Still sounds 'like' a JB with an alnico 2 but there is something missing and in many cases that 'something' is really amplified and obvious.
The pole size alone in an Invader keep the magnets and coils a certain distance from the strings...'that' is one of those details. The sheer size of the heads create a unique magnetic field pattern...'that' is a detail.
Those are the kinds of significances that can't be ignored IMO. Even though many players aren't tuned in to that level of detail, just as many are and I find it important to practice 'good' advice if I personally know better (or think I do).
Peace.
Sorry Just read that.
In my opinion, the last 15 or 20% of any signature tone is found in the details...There is no doubt that an alnico 5 puts a JB where it is. Still sounds 'like' a JB with an alnico 2 but there is something missing and in many cases that 'something' is really amplified and obvious.
The pole size alone in an Invader keep the magnets and coils a certain distance from the strings...'that' is one of those details. The sheer size of the heads create a unique magnetic field pattern...'that' is a detail.
Those are the kinds of significances that can't be ignored IMO. Even though many players aren't tuned in to that level of detail, just as many are and I find it important to practice 'good' advice if I personally know better (or think I do).
Peace.
