Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I played a used Engl Thunder 50 Reverb combo at GC last night (driving a Marshall 1960a cab) and was blown away by each channel's tone. The stock speaker was disappointing on high gain stuff, so that's why I plugged into the Marshall cab. Interestingly about the stock speaker: the sales guy looked at the back of the amp and said the speaker was a Celestion G12-80 (?), vs. a Celestion Vintage 30 which the current production versions come with, per the Engl website. Did the previous Thunder 50 Reverb's truly come with those speakers?

So, the only concern in my mind was that there is only 1 EQ set for both channels, and the gain knob is also shared by both channels. That's why the Raider with its independent EQs and volumes per channel seems preferable. But there doesn't to be any Raiders around locally to try. Anyone familiar with both amps and know if they are voiced similarly or not?

[edit] while we're at it, same question regarding the voicing of the Engl Sovereign combo?

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

No. The Raider is rather unique. While the Raider is a bit darker than the Thunder, it has the most amazing wah-like midrange lead tone. People usually ask to compare the Thunder and the Screamer. They have the Engl tone, but are voiced differently. For rock and solo tones, I like the Thunder. For metal, the Screamer. The Raider is a cut above both. It has a spectacular clean channel, and all the sounds you need for ANY kind of music. It's truly one of the most versatile amps I have ever owned. I posted a few audio demos on this forum of my Raider a while back. I wish they had it in head form because I got rid of all of my combos last year in favor of stacking heads upon my cabs. In fact, the Raider was my last combo amp. I miss it, but I won't buy it unless it comes in a head shell.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

No. The Raider is rather unique. While the Raider is a bit darker than the Thunder, it has the most amazing wah-like midrange lead tone. People usually ask to compare the Thunder and the Screamer. They have the Engl tone, but are voiced differently. For rock and solo tones, I like the Thunder. For metal, the Screamer. The Raider is a cut above both. It has a spectacular clean channel, and all the sounds you need for ANY kind of music. It's truly one of the most versatile amps I have ever owned. I posted a few audio demos on this forum of my Raider a while back. I wish they had it in head form because I got rid of all of my combos last year in favor of stacking heads upon my cabs. In fact, the Raider was my last combo amp. I miss it, but I won't buy it unless it comes in a head shell.

I am interested in the Raider vs. The Screamer because it seems To be the next level up from thunder/screamer in the combo line that has separate eq's for each channel, and a volume for the clean channel that is not tied to the dirty channel's gain.

[EDIT]: Found that review you mentioned here. Nice write-up. After reading it, I think I will find that I prefer the Thunder over the Raider. I thought the Thunder had an amazing clean channel (thru a 4x12), topping the Fender BDRI I currently own. Whereas in the review you state that the Raider's clean is good but not as good as Fender clean, and the Raider overall is darker - I am not a fan of dark tones. Then again, don't know if you tried the Raider through any 4x12 cabs like I did w the Thunder and plan to do w the Raider when I do a test drive.

Thanks!

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

I am interested in the Raider vs. The Screamer because it seems To be the next level up from thunder/screamer in the combo line that has separate eq's for each channel, and a volume for the clean channel that is not tied to the dirty channel's gain.

[EDIT]: Found that review you mentioned here. Nice write-up. After reading it, I think I will find that I prefer the Thunder over the Raider. I thought the Thunder had an amazing clean channel (thru a 4x12), topping the Fender BDRI I currently own. Whereas in the review you state that the Raider's clean is good but not as good as Fender clean, and the Raider overall is darker - I am not a fan of dark tones. Then again, don't know if you tried the Raider through any 4x12 cabs like I did w the Thunder and plan to do w the Raider when I do a test drive.

Thanks!

Well speaker changes can be of great benefit. I have a couple of audio samples where I swapped speakers in both the Raider and Screamer. Personally, I like the Raider more than the Thunder and Screamer. It has a really, really great sound and lots of options. All you have to do its set it in the first bright stage to make it a brighter amp. You still have other presence options to fine tune the sound. Try the Raider with different speakers. However, that's my opinion. I have heard a lot of people say they prefer the Thunder over the Screamer and Raider. It's a great amp with a nice voice. The Screamer can't really be tamed like the Thunder and Raider, but it's a more aggressive voicing.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

Well speaker changes can be of great benefit. I have a couple of audio samples where I swapped speakers in both the Raider and Screamer. Personally, I like the Raider more than the Thunder and Screamer. It has a really, really great sound and lots of options. All you have to do its set it in the first bright stage to make it a brighter amp. You still have other presence options to fine tune the sound. Try the Raider with different speakers. However, that's my opinion. I have heard a lot of people say they prefer the Thunder over the Screamer and Raider. It's a great amp with a nice voice. The Screamer can't really be tamed like the Thunder and Raider, but it's a more aggressive voicing.

That is very pertinent to hear that the "darkness" can be somewhat tamed. I will actually have the opportunity to try out a Raider next weekend. Planning to bring along a 1x12 cab as a just-in-case what I'm hearing from the stock open-back design isn't bringing me much cheer. Will reply back with what I think. I should also have my first opportunity that same weekend to try out a Screamer.

 

[Mad-Max]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

I wish my local GC would start carrying Engl's. I've been patiently waiting to try a bunch! Especially the Savage 120 and the Retro Tube! Although that new Fireball II sounds amazing from the videos I've heard of it so far.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

Well speaker changes can be of great benefit. I have a couple of audio samples where I swapped speakers in both the Raider and Screamer. Personally, I like the Raider more than the Thunder and Screamer. It has a really, really great sound and lots of options. All you have to do its set it in the first bright stage to make it a brighter amp. You still have other presence options to fine tune the sound. Try the Raider with different speakers. However, that's my opinion. I have heard a lot of people say they prefer the Thunder over the Screamer and Raider. It's a great amp with a nice voice. The Screamer can't really be tamed like the Thunder and Raider, but it's a more aggressive voicing.

One other question: does it sound good at lower volumes, particularly, for late night recording sessions? I wish it had a lineout like the Screamer does.

3 days to go before I get to try out a used Raider for sale. Bringing along a closed-back 1x12 cab w a Celestion Vintage 30 (a.k.a. Orange PPC112).

If the Raider doesn't seem to work for me, I've already got a used Screamer combo and a used Thunder w Reverb combo lined up for me to check out this weekend as well. Looks like I'll have a NAD post to make soon either way after this weekend is over.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

One other question: does it sound good at lower volumes, particularly, for late night recording sessions? I wish it had a lineout like the Screamer does.

3 days to go before I get to try out a used Raider for sale. Bringing along a closed-back 1x12 cab w a Celestion Vintage 30 (a.k.a. Orange PPC112).

If the Raider doesn't seem to work for me, I've already got a used Screamer combo and a used Thunder w Reverb combo lined up for me to check out this weekend as well. Looks like I'll have a NAD post to make soon either way after this weekend is over.

All Engl amps have a very good master volume. However, you're dealing with a 50w amp so you're going to have to figure a few things out to get a good low volume sound. Use a quieter speaker, lower output preamp tubes, use the level/vol control on your overdrive pedal to help control the volume. I think a combination of things will work for you. However, I'd suggest getting an Engl E530 preamp and Carvin power amp. Together, you will get a great Engl sound for the same cost as a Thunder. That will give you all the options you want at any volume level.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

All Engl amps have a very good master volume. However, you're dealing with a 50w amp so you're going to have to figure a few things out to get a good low volume sound. Use a quieter speaker, lower output preamp tubes, use the level/vol control on your overdrive pedal to help control the volume. I think a combination of things will work for you. However, I'd suggest getting an Engl E530 preamp and Carvin power amp. Together, you will get a great Engl sound for the same cost as a Thunder. That will give you all the options you want at any volume level.

If the Engl E330 preamp is still tube vs. Solid state, won't it need it's volume set just as high as an Engl head or combo amp, to get sufficiently good tone for recording?

Also, separate question, is the volume level on the amp a factor in how "good" the tone sounds coming out of the line out, which is available on the Screamer?

Thanks again!

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

If the Engl E330 preamp is still tube vs. Solid state, won't it need it's volume set just as high as an Engl head or combo amp, to get sufficiently good tone for recording?

Also, separate question, is the volume level on the amp a factor in how "good" the tone sounds coming out of the line out, which is available on the Screamer?

Thanks again!

That's why you need to buy a tube power amp. You can get them with EL34, 6L6, or even EL84or 6V6. The line out is emulated so volume is not a factor at all. The Engl E530 preamp has a headphone jack for practice too if I'm not mistaken.

The great thing about preamp + poweramp is because you can do just about whatever you want. The preamp is just the front end of an amp in a pedal or rackmount housing. The power amp gives you the power tube section. Mesa Boogie, Fryette, Engl, Marshall, etc.. all make tube power amps. There are many ways to go about it. You can buy an affordable used tube power amp and spend more on a nice preamp, or you can buy a sweet new tube power amp and buy various preamps.

Engl makes two preamps: the E530 (affordable around $500-600) and the Special Edition which runs around $1500 to $1800) The E530 sounds absolutely fantastic with a tube power amp. Currently, I'm working on selling my D-Moll to buy a Fryette 50w power amp and an Engl special edition preamp. Then later on, I'm going to get a Mesa Boogie Triaxis and an AxeFX II. Between those three, I'll have every guitar tone known to man under my fingertips, mu-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! The only amp I plan to keep will be a Blues Junior combo or possibly a Bogner Atma & 1x12 cab. All of my other amps are going bye-bye to make room for my preamp>power amp setup.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

All Engl amps have a very good master volume. However, you're dealing with a 50w amp so you're going to have to figure a few things out to get a good low volume sound. Use a quieter speaker, lower output preamp tubes, use the level/vol control on your overdrive pedal to help control the volume. I think a combination of things will work for you. However, I'd suggest getting an Engl E530 preamp and Carvin power amp. Together, you will get a great Engl sound for the same cost as a Thunder. That will give you all the options you want at any volume level.

Looking into doing the multi preamp and common power amp set-up. Is there a line selector on the market where I can remotely toggle it via a separate amp - like channel switch, so the unit itself can sit near the two preamp and the poweramp and I can therefore avoid 3 long cable runs.

I'll detail my experience trying the Raider out in a separate post.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

Looking into doing the multi preamp and common power amp set-up. Is there a line selector on the market where I can remotely toggle it via a separate amp - like channel switch, so the unit itself can sit near the two preamp and the poweramp and I can therefore avoid 3 long cable runs.

I'll detail my experience trying the Raider out in a separate post.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm thinking a MIDI pedal could be what you're looking for. You can find some affordable ones that run anywhere from $75 to $250. I'm not sure if you can toggle between preamps with a MIDI footswitch, but I'm sure you could get one of those A-B-C-D boxes that let you do that. The reason I suggested the tube power amp/preamp setup is because you can do so much with it and it will all fit into a 5U rack which you can port around with a little 1x12 cab and cover pretty much any bar gig. Plus, once you have collected a few different preamps, you will pretty much have any amp sound you need.

This is the rack I'm starting to build for myself now:

Fryette 2-50-2 power amp
Marshall 50/50
Engl Special Edition E670 Preamp
Mesa Boogie Triaxis
AxeFX II

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm thinking a MIDI pedal could be what you're looking for. You can find some affordable ones that run anywhere from $75 to $250. I'm not sure if you can toggle between preamps with a MIDI footswitch, but I'm sure you could get one of those A-B-C-D boxes that let you do that. The reason I suggested the tube power amp/preamp setup is because you can do so much with it and it will all fit into a 5U rack which you can port around with a little 1x12 cab and cover pretty much any bar gig. Plus, once you have collected a few different preamps, you will pretty much have any amp sound you need.

This is the rack I'm starting to build for myself now:

Fryette 2-50-2 power amp
Marshall 50/50
Engl Special Edition E670 Preamp
Mesa Boogie Triaxis
AxeFX II

I broke this preamp switching question out into a separate thread here. I explained my question a little better in that thread. Thanks again. By the way, that sounds like a great dream rig you are starting to assemble there!

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

One other question: does it sound good at lower volumes, particularly, for late night recording sessions? I wish it had a lineout like the Screamer does.

3 days to go before I get to try out a used Raider for sale. Bringing along a closed-back 1x12 cab w a Celestion Vintage 30 (a.k.a. Orange PPC112).

If the Raider doesn't seem to work for me, I've already got a used Screamer combo and a used Thunder w Reverb combo lined up for me to check out this weekend as well. Looks like I'll have a NAD post to make soon either way after this weekend is over.

So regarding the Raider tryout a couple weekends ago: i should have brought along an external cab that had celestion g12t-75 speakers since that is what I am used to at this point. Instead I brought along a 1x12 cab w a Vintage 30 that I had recently acquired. The Raider on its own and through the cab sounded ok, but considering the guy wanted over a grand and in cash, it didn't sound good enough at that time for me to part w my cash. I am pretty sure it would have sounded really good to my ears and I would done the deal if brought along and hooked up my cab w the -75's from home, but I don't regret it too much because I was already starting to like the idea of going separate preamp and poweramp anyways.

I picked up a used Engl Thunder from GC for the 30 day eval, and two things have become clearer to me trying it out at home with my 1x12, my 4x12, and playing the amp through its own speaker: a) the Thunder doesn't have enough gain to do thrash style metal, b) I don't like a Celestion Vintage even in a closed back cab - too middy sounding, and c) I think the Vintage 30 sounds even worse in an open back cab. Was pretty surprised how thin it sounds.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

So regarding the Raider tryout a couple weekends ago: i should have brought along an external can that had celestion g12t-75 speakers since that is what I am used to at this point. Instead I brought along a 1x12 cab w a Vintage 30 that I had recently acquired. The Raider on its own and through the cab sounded ok, but considering the guy wanted over a grand and in cash, it didn't sound good enough at that time for me to part w my cash. I am pretty sure it would have sounded really good to my ears I hooked up my cab w the -75's at home, but I don't regret it too much because I was already starting to like the idea of going separate preamp and poweramp anyways.

I picked up a used Engl Thunder from GC for the 30 day eval, and two things have become clearer to me trying it out at home with my 1x12, my 4x12, and playing the amp through its own speaker: a) the Thunder doesn't have enough gain to do thrash style metal, b) I don't like a Celestion Vintage even in a closed back cab - too middy sounding, and c) I think the Vintage 30 sounds even worse in an open back cab. Was pretty surprised how thin it sounds.

I'd be interested to know how you are dialing the Thunder in and how you dialed the Raider in. Vintage 30's should have been perfect. G12T75's are mid-scooped and harsh in the high end. I have heard some pretty brutal stuff from the Thunder and never felt like it lacked any gain so I'm curious how you have your rig configured. What kind of pickups/guitar? Cables? Something seems amiss. What kind of amp were you using before? What did you not like about the Raider?

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

G12T75's are mid-scooped and harsh in the high end.

^ I believe this accounts for most of our difference of opinion vs. how I had the amp dialed in. 75's and Vintage 30's are (as I found out) quite different sounding speakers - and I happen to like the scooped mids and can't say I concur that the highs are harsh. But I can say regarding EQ settings when demoing the Thunder w V30 in open back combo and closed back cab, that I started with all at noon and tried quite a number of EQ configurations, even some extreme settings towards the end.

I have heard some pretty brutal stuff from the Thunder and never felt like it lacked any gain so I'm curious how you have your rig configured. What kind of pickups/guitar? Cables? Something seems amiss. What kind of amp were you using before? What did you not like about the Raider?

Yes, sorry, my earlier statement about lack of gain was probably not the correct description. As I turned up the gain towards where I needed it to be for thrash tones, it got super shrill like, noisy and compressed, and EQ adjustments could not relieve that.

For guitar pups, I mostly use an Ibanez RG w Floyd, that has a Dimarzio Super Dist in the Bridge. I even did a bit of tweaking regarding the bridge pickup height when demoing the Thunder at home, ultimately raising the pup a bit to provide more gain w/o having to goose that Thunder gain knob which as I had said earlier, got too woolly if brought up too high.

Currently I am using a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue into a Marshall 1960A 4x12. I use the amp's clean and dirty channels as-is, and for high gain tones, I bypass the preamp and plug a BOSS MT-2 into the Return jack to hit the Power Amp directly.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

^ I believe this accounts for most of our difference of opinion vs. how I had the amp dialed in. 75's and Vintage 30's are (as I found out) quite different sounding speakers - and I happen to like the scooped mids and can't say I concur that the highs are harsh. But I can say regarding EQ settings when demoing the Thunder w V30 in open back combo and closed back cab, that I started with all at noon and tried quite a number of EQ configurations, even some extreme settings towards the end.



Yes, sorry, my earlier statement about lack of gain was probably not the correct description. As I turned up the gain towards where I needed it to be for thrash tones, it got super shrill like, noisy and compressed, and EQ adjustments could not relieve that.

For guitar pups, I mostly use an Ibanez RG w Floyd, that has a Dimarzio Super Dist in the Bridge. I even did a bit of tweaking regarding the bridge pickup height when demoing the Thunder at home, ultimately raising the pup a bit to provide more gain w/o having to goose that Thunder gain knob which as I had said earlier, got too woolly if brought up too high.

Currently I am using a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue into a Marshall 1960A 4x12. I use the amp's clean and dirty channels as-is, and for high gain tones, I bypass the preamp and plug a BOSS MT-2 into the Return jack to hit the Power Amp directly.

OK, I get where you're coming from. MT-2 through the return loop doesn't seem ideal though since you're basically using an analog distortion pedal as a preamp essentially. It sounds to me like you're probably not cranking up your amp too loud so maybe that setup works for you at lower volumes. Maybe you're better off buying a preamp and converting your HRD to a head so you can use it as a power amp. Anyway, there's just something odd about your experience with the Raider because it's not a noisy or shrill amp at all. In fact, it has a built-in noise gate if I can remember correctly. I'm inclined to think that there is something wrong with the amp you tried. Any high-gain amp is going to compress a lot, especially if you juice the preamp distortion, but that is the nature of high-gain.

You're also using a high-output pickup into a high-gain amp. The Super Distortion is a relatively dark pickup with a ton of mids, so if you're scooping out the mids then you must be compensating with treble or else it would sound like a bunch of crappy, compressed low end. There are two ways to juice an amp: use high output pickups to push an amp into overdrive, or use lower output pickups and rely more on amp/pedal distortion.

One of the things about Engl amps is that the treble increases as the gain increases, so if you're maxing out the gain, you're also increasing the high end. You may need to lower the treble on your gain channel and up the presence control to bring out the high end. Also, many amps have interactive EQ controls, so if you are lowering one of the EQ's, it will raise some other part of the frequency response. For instance, scooping mids might take out mids but contribute to more of the harsh frequencies in the high end and increase bass response. Engl amps typically thrive on midrange, especially low mids. In fact, the Raider has a mid boost built in.

I don't know man, it just seems something is amiss because I know the Raider well. Also, the Thunder has plenty of gain on tap so I'm wondering if maybe you are using distortion to compensate for sustain or something. So much distortion can't sound that good. I'm into metal big-time, but I don't play it as much as I do like Satriani and classic metal kind of stuff. However, I know a lot of guys who play lots of modern metal and they really don't use that much distortion. Perhaps you use it for sustain or sensitivity so that the guitar becomes more sensitive to your technique. Do you use a lot of light picking to play fast riffs? Does the distortion help you get more punch from light picking so you don't have to dig in or use a heavier pick attack?

Do you have any recorded material with the Thunder yet? Have you checked into the E530 preamp yet?

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

OK, I get where you're coming from. MT-2 through the return loop doesn't seem ideal though since you're basically using an analog distortion pedal as a preamp essentially. It sounds to me like you're probably not cranking up your amp too loud so maybe that setup works for you at lower volumes. Maybe you're better off buying a preamp and converting your HRD to a head so you can use it as a power amp. Anyway, there's just something odd about your experience with the Raider because it's not a noisy or shrill amp at all. In fact, it has a built-in noise gate if I can remember correctly. I'm inclined to think that there is something wrong with the amp you tried. Any high-gain amp is going to compress a lot, especially if you juice the preamp distortion, but that is the nature of high-gain.

You're also using a high-output pickup into a high-gain amp. The Super Distortion is a relatively dark pickup with a ton of mids, so if you're scooping out the mids then you must be compensating with treble or else it would sound like a bunch of crappy, compressed low end. There are two ways to juice an amp: use high output pickups to push an amp into overdrive, or use lower output pickups and rely more on amp/pedal distortion.

One of the things about Engl amps is that the treble increases as the gain increases, so if you're maxing out the gain, you're also increasing the high end. You may need to lower the treble on your gain channel and up the presence control to bring out the high end. Also, many amps have interactive EQ controls, so if you are lowering one of the EQ's, it will raise some other part of the frequency response. For instance, scooping mids might take out mids but contribute to more of the harsh frequencies in the high end and increase bass response. Engl amps typically thrive on midrange, especially low mids. In fact, the Raider has a mid boost built in.

I don't know man, it just seems something is amiss because I know the Raider well. Also, the Thunder has plenty of gain on tap so I'm wondering if maybe you are using distortion to compensate for sustain or something. So much distortion can't sound that good. I'm into metal big-time, but I don't play it as much as I do like Satriani and classic metal kind of stuff. However, I know a lot of guys who play lots of modern metal and they really don't use that much distortion. Perhaps you use it for sustain or sensitivity so that the guitar becomes more sensitive to your technique. Do you use a lot of light picking to play fast riffs? Does the distortion help you get more punch from light picking so you don't have to dig in or use a heavier pick attack?

Do you have any recorded material with the Thunder yet? Have you checked into the E530 preamp yet?

Oops, you are starting to mix together my comments about the Thunder and my comments about the Raider. It was the Thunder thay I found shrill at high gain settings.

I still think the clean and overdrive tones on each of those Engl amps are better than my Fender Blues Deluxe, so I am still going to keep Engl as an option as I am shopping preamps.

I am currently satisfied with the high gain tones I get from the pedal-into-power amp arrangement. I got the idea in the last year from some other forum members via this thread. I still have yet to hear a tube-based amp or head <$1500 that serves up thrash tones that are substantially better (to my ears) than what I currently am getting. It's probably more due to the inherently different character of high gain tone produced by solid state vs. that produced by tubes, and my gradual realization that my ears happen to prefer the former.

Seriously, though, thanks for all the good info on the Engls and recommendations

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

Oops, you are starting to mix together my comments about the Thunder and my comments about the Raider. It was the Thunder thay I found shrill at high gain settings.

I still think the clean and overdrive tones on each of those Engl amps are better than my Fender Blues Deluxe, so I am still going to keep Engl as an option as I am shopping preamps.

I am currently satisfied with the high gain tones I get from the pedal-into-power amp arrangement. I got the idea in the last year from some other forum members via this thread. I still have yet to hear a tube-based amp or head <$1500 that serves up thrash tones that are substantially better (to my ears) than what I currently am getting. It's probably more due to the inherently different character of high gain tone produced by solid state vs. that produced by tubes, and my gradual realization that my ears happen to prefer the former.

Seriously, though, thanks for all the good info on the Engls and recommendations

OK, cool. I'm glad I could have been of some help. By the way, man oh man, I finally got to play the E570 preamp. I have played the E530 before and really liked it. The E570 though is a cut above though. I used to think the Mesa Triaxis was overall kind of preamps (never tried a Bogner Fish though), but I'm thoroughly impressed with the E570. It has to be the best preamp around. I was starting to crave an AxeFX II, but now that I have played the E570, I don't want one any more. Even through a tube preamp the AxeFX won't sound as good as the E570. It's expensive though, about 3x more than the E530. I don't mean that the E530 is less quality sound than the E570 because it's awesome too. It's that the E570 just has more and there's something a bit different about the overdrive that reminds me a lot of the Invader which is my favorite Engl.

Well, check one out if you're going to get into preamps man. If you're stuck at a lower price point though, nothing beats the E530. I have played most of the good preamps out there, including the Mesa Boogie Recording preamp. It's about twice as much as the E530. It's really, really good - especially the cleans. You can find them used from $600-800. Check them out because it sounds like that's the direction you need to go. You can probably get enough for either preamp if you sell your Thunder.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Is Engl Raider voiced the similar to Engl Thunder Reverb

OK, cool. I'm glad I could have been of some help. By the way, man oh man, I finally got to play the E570 preamp. I have played the E530 before and really liked it. The E570 though is a cut above though. I used to think the Mesa Triaxis was overall kind of preamps (never tried a Bogner Fish though), but I'm thoroughly impressed with the E570. It has to be the best preamp around. I was starting to crave an AxeFX II, but now that I have played the E570, I don't want one any more. Even through a tube preamp the AxeFX won't sound as good as the E570. It's expensive though, about 3x more than the E530. I don't mean that the E530 is less quality sound than the E570 because it's awesome too. It's that the E570 just has more and there's something a bit different about the overdrive that reminds me a lot of the Invader which is my favorite Engl.

Well, check one out if you're going to get into preamps man. If you're stuck at a lower price point though, nothing beats the E530. I have played most of the good preamps out there, including the Mesa Boogie Recording preamp. It's about twice as much as the E530. It's really, really good - especially the cleans. You can find them used from $600-800. Check them out because it sounds like that's the direction you need to go. You can probably get enough for either preamp if you sell your Thunder.

Wow, that E570 does sound good, thanks. Althought my budget will probably rule it out.

Hey, I noticed that a used Sovereign just popped up on GC Used for something like ~$1600. Sorry for the inducing GAS (not really). lol