Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

[TheArchitect]

Distorted tone is just sucking big time. Its too gritty and way too much of the crackle effect in the tone and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.

Guitars - PRS / LP / Wolfgang
Pedals - Original Marshall Guv'nor / Fulldrive II / Reverend DriveTrain / Reissue TS
Amps - JMP / Plexi Marshalls
Speakers - 70 vintage Celestion Greenbacks.

This is topshelf stuff. It should do a lot better than this. Right now I'm liking my PODxt better and that is wrong in so many ways........... :smack:

 

[Stevo]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

I'd ditch the pedals and get an attenuator.. those Marshalls need to be cranked.
Maybe some 25 watt greenbacks too.. they have more mids than the 70 watters.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

I'd ditch the pedals and get an attenuator.. those Marshalls need to be cranked.
Maybe some 25 watt greenbacks too.. they have more mids than the 70 watters.

The speakers are 70's vintage 25 watt GB's. Should have been more clear on that point.

I do have a Hot Plate. It kind of screws with the EQ in a bad way but I am still experimenting. I still need a boost to get the lead tone I want out of it.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Turn down the presence and get some smoother preamp tubes.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Are you setting the crunch levels too high on your pedals? Set the level high and the distortion/drive low. That's about all I can think of.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

The speakers are 70's vintage 25 watt GB's. Should have been more clear on that point.

I do have a Hot Plate. It kind of screws with the EQ in a bad way but I am still experimenting. I still need a boost to get the lead tone I want out of it.

ditch the Hot Plate, and get a Weber Mass...Hot Plates are cool, but the Mass is much better and costs less!

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Turn down the presence and get some smoother preamp tubes.

The irony, I just finished another testing session and tweaking the presence was one of the things I worked with. The other was working with the Bass channel.

As far as tubes, I don't recall what I had put in the last time. Certainly something I can look into though. Any recommendations?

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Are you setting the crunch levels too high on your pedals? Set the level high and the distortion/drive low. That's about all I can think of.

I was getting all of the gain from the pedals when I was using them. The amps were set clean / relatively low volume. My last round of experiments would suggest its a tube / EQ issue. I was able to get a much better result on the bass channel of the JMP I was working with. I tend to set the amps fairly bright for a clean sound. I guess its time to drop that philosophy in favor of fine tuning the trick these amps do best.

 

[FireBros.]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

It's probably not your guitars, or pedals. I would concentrate on getting a fat tone from your guitar and amp set up, then use the pedals after, as seasoning.

You should borrow some gear, and try different speakers and amps. That might tell you more what is going on with your rig. Those are cool amps, but if they haven't been kept up, there could be stuff wrong like bad tubes, caps etc. A good tune up by a tech might be what you need.

I've also heard those speakers sound exactly as you described many times. I personally think most old greenbacks don't sound that good. G12H30's or Vintage 30's seem to be better at getting the fat tones people are wanting nowdays.

Also like Stevo said Marshalls need to be cranked. I've never used a MASS, but the Hotplate IMO doesn't sound good at extreme levels of attenuation, you have to already have a good sound somewhat near the level you need, then use the Hotplate to bring it down a little. It won't make a 100 watt Marshall sound good at bedroom levels.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

It's probably not your guitars, or pedals. I would concentrate on getting a fat tone from your guitar and amp set up, then use the pedals after, as seasoning.

You should borrow some gear, and try different speakers and amps. That might tell you more what is going on with your rig. Those are cool amps, but if they haven't been kept up, there could be stuff wrong like bad tubes, caps etc. A good tune up by a tech might be what you need.

I've also heard those speakers sound exactly as you described many times. I personally think most old greenbacks don't sound that good. G12H30's or Vintage 30's seem to be better at getting the fat tones people are wanting nowdays.

Also like Stevo said Marshalls need to be cranked. I've never used a MASS, but the Hotplate IMO doesn't sound good at extreme levels of attenuation, you have to already have a good sound somewhat near the level you need, then use the Hotplate to bring it down a little. It won't make a 100 watt Marshall sound good at bedroom levels.

Thanks! I appreciate the input. The amps are in good repair. I have great tech that sees them regularly. The tonality of the tubes in there right now might not be to my liking. I will experiment with that. As for the hot plate, I never use more that -8db when tone matter and usually only -4. I agree it screws with the sound a little too much after that. I have been looking onto speakers as well. Both cabs are loaded with GB's but are surprisingly different tonewise. I've been working with the smoother sounding one and referencing the other to see how they work with different combinations.

I will need to see how things progress. Sustain is what I want, not gain so that is the real trick. I may try the dynacomp tomorrow and see if I can trade some gain for compression to get a little sweetness back.

 

[FireBros.]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Sometimes running a good comp pedal at the front of you signal chain can work very well. It will definitely smooth out you tone.

 

[YJM_Rocks]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Have you tried an EQ pedal?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

Definately go back to guitar, cord, amp and start from there. I would then look at pre-amp tubes. My suggestions for these are as follows, if you want to smooth out your sound.

GT 12AX7-M. This was a bit too smooth and warm in my JCM 800, it may just be the ticket for you.

NOS RFT - you can get these at www.kcanostubes.com. Very warm, with a slightly brighter tone than the M's, yet still very warm.

JJecc83S - These were too warm again in my JCM 800, but just what the Dr. ordered for my Blues Jr. The batch I got had less gain than some other JJ's. Bob at Eurotubes can set you up with some that have different hardness ratings and breakup.

Also, check your power tubes...what are you running there? There are some tubes on the market that will definately warm up your amp.

Next, I would look at your strings...seriously. A set of Snake Oil Vintage pure nickel strings will smooth out and balance your tone very nicely. I was amazed at the change in tone when I switched my Lesters to them. Strings are the very first link in your tone chain, and the most overlooked link.

 

[FireBros.]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

JJecc83S - These were too warm again in my JCM 800, but just what the Dr. ordered for my Blues Jr. The batch I got had less gain than some other JJ's. Bob at Eurotubes can set you up with some that have different hardness ratings and breakup.

These tubes are often mentioned on the univalve webpage as a way to warm up an amp. I have never used them, but I will vouch for their reputation.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

I don't know how much distortion you need, but those pedals you have are overdrive pedals. I've never like those with a clean amp. I think you would need a true distortion pedal in a clean amp. I agree with above, get that Marshall cranking, then if you want, you can boost it to tighten it up with those O/D pedals.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

its also not that easy to get awesome overdrive tones out of marshalls in bedroom volume levels, they need some crankin.

My bandmaster sounds like crap at bedroom levels with my TS reissue, but when i turn it up to 5 then step on the TS, it sounds like butter. The amp needs to breathe a little for overdrive pedals to do their jobs.

 

[Guest]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

You've prob. done this already when you got you Plexi...but I'm gonna point it out anyways, in case you havn't.

Bridge the channels and tweak in a little more from the desired channel. Maybe it'll help.

But don't you just give up on it

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

ummmm.....which pickups are you using?

 

[benjaturner]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

This just sounds like old tubes to me. When did you last put new tubes in your amps? You should replace pre-amp tubes (small ones) about every 18 months and power-amp tubes (big ones) about every three years. I don't know as I've never actually seen a JMP, but I'm guessing it uses EL34's as power-amps and ECC83's (or 12AX7's for all you Americans) for pre-amps. Groove Tubes is probably the most widely respected tube brand (they don't actually make them themselves, just buy them from the same factories as the cheaper brands like Electro-Harmonix. This could develop into a long-winded rant so I'll stop now. Though I will recommend that you pay the extra for the Groove Tubes). I've no idea what re-tubing an amp costs in America but it can be really expensive here in the U.K. Sometimes as much as £150 ($300 approx.). Don't worry though, you can do it for much, much less. The sure fire way to know if your problem is with your tubes is to listen out for any popping or high pitched noises comming form your amp.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Is it amps, speakers, or pedals?

I don't know how much distortion you need, but those pedals you have are overdrive pedals. I've never like those with a clean amp. I think you would need a true distortion pedal in a clean amp. I agree with above, get that Marshall cranking, then if you want, you can boost it to tighten it up with those O/D pedals.

The Guv'nor isn't an overdrive. The rest are though.