Is it worth upgrading?

[Ste]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

I'm upgrading my s470. Absolutely love it, would love to go out and buy a new premium at £800 but for £120 i can buy 2 pick ups to refine the sound and bin off the infinity pups, there's not much point. just a ***** trying to look in to which ones to go for. lol.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Getting back to the original post.

Squier Affinity Stratocaster. Big ideas, small budget. How about one high output humbucking pickup and two American control pots mounted in a new pickguard? Rock out with your ...

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

To put as much into upgrades as the guitar is worth, or more, is what's questionable. Why not spend that money on a better guitar in the first place? If you're going to end up putting $800 into a guitar, everything totalled, it makes more sense to put $100 into a $700 guitar, than to put $700 into a $100 guitar. In both cases the cost is the same. That's the point Zerb was making. Have a cut-off point so a guitar doesn't become a bottomless pit you throw money into. If you can afford hundreds of dollars of upgrades, you have the money to buy a better 'foundation' to start with. You're not saving anything by getting a cheapo guitar and then having to take out a loan to get everything replaced. With most imports, you can safely assume that the PU's have to go. That'll make the biggest improvement in tone, and you can often get those used for around half price. After that, think long and hard about replacing the hardware, as you can sink hundreds into it for a small improvement in tone. If the electronics work, there's no need to replace the wiring harness. If you want better hardware and electronics in a guitar, look for a deal on a higher quality one, which will have that and better wood. And won't cost you any more than an upgraded cheapo. Getting a deal on a used Epi and upgrading PU's makes sense; Buying an Epi and spending so much on upgrades that you could have gotten a Gibson is what we're trying to talk people out of. That is not 'worth it' to anyone. If you have the money to spend, spend it upfront, not after the original purchase.

Again to depends on if it is worth it to you. I have a $500 Epi that I like. I have probably put another $300 into it. If I lose the guitar I lose $700. I lost more than that when I sold a 2005 LP Standard after 6 years. The play pretty much the same and sounded pretty much the same. I lose nothing by doing this monetarily. I have a guitar that is much more designed for me than the LP Standard. So ... I say it is a matter of what works for the player.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

MAking these decisions purely on dollars and cents assumes that it is all about the money. There are other factors involved, and they may be more important to any individual than the money.

 

[Left_Hand_Strat]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Getting back to the original post.

Squier Affinity Stratocaster. Big ideas, small budget. How about one high output humbucking pickup and two American control pots mounted in a new pickguard? Rock out with your ...

even a change of pots which is quite cheap, and some new pickups you will have already improved that guitar a lot. I went further and altered the wiring a lot but each to their own. The fact is the newer Squier strats are made of alder. Some of them are real dogs others are bloody awesome. If you upgrade to a humbucker then search eBay for some affordaby MIM or MIA pickups for the neck and middle then you are on the way somewhere.

I would also suggest a look at GFS though, because their pickups are pretty good for the money

 

[Mosher Zone]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

I say do it, the least upgrade i've done to a guitar is change the bridge pickup. I enjoy doing the upgrades, the most i have done to a cheap Bc Rich beater is change the pickups add a preamp & change the old crap single locking Floyd to a Kahler Pro, the only thing original is the tuners. I'm under no illusion that i have a custom shop piece but it's a great sounding guitar & i don't plan on selling it anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

I say do it, the least upgrade i've done to a guitar is change the bridge pickup. I enjoy doing the upgrades, the most i have done to a cheap Bc Rich beater is change the pickups add a preamp & change the old crap single locking Floyd to a Kahler Pro, the only thing original is the tuners. I'm under no illusion that i have a custom shop piece but it's a great sounding guitar & i don't plan on selling it anyway.

 

[brunogio]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

To jump in here, it depends on how good the guitar is to begin with. If it plays great and feels great but has an issue, then upgrading makes sense. Heck we've been through a few thousand posts about how great Les Pauls can be but need something to make the pups sound more alive.

But if the guitar needed a new bridge, a new nut and new pups, then it's not really that good a guitar to begin with is it?

Chances are if you do that much upgrading to fix an issue, the real issue is the guitar itself.

Trust me, I've spent a few hundred to learn this lesson myself.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

To jump in here, it depends on how good the guitar is to begin with. If it plays great and feels great but has an issue, then upgrading makes sense. Heck we've been through a few thousand posts about how great Les Pauls can be but need something to make the pups sound more alive.

But if the guitar needed a new bridge, a new nut and new pups, then it's not really that good a guitar to begin with is it?

Chances are if you do that much upgrading to fix an issue, the real issue is the guitar itself.

Trust me, I've spent a few hundred to learn this lesson myself.

Thank you. There's plenty of deals on guitars without issues, that you don't have to take on the expense of fixing or upgrading all kinds of things. If you have a Gibson Les Paul Std that needs a few hundred doillars of work, it's worth it. An Epi LP Std that needs that much work is not worth it.

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

But why not put that money in a higher quality guitar to begin with? The return-on-investment thing is very real; everything gets sold. Eventually your tastes change, you find something else you like better, don't have as much time to play, or quit playing, etc. That's when dumping $500 into a $150 guitar becomes painfully apparent, when you realize what a blunder it was, and that $500 could gone for a lot of other things you wish you had instead (including non-musical expenditures). If you have loads of disposable income, $500 frittered away is no big deal. But if you have loads of disposable cash, you wouldn't be buying $150 entry-level guitars in the first place. It's the guys that don't have money to burn that make big upgrades on cheap guitars. They're proud of the 'deal' they got with the initial price, and don't know when to stop putting money into it. They get caught up in their $150 'deal.' For them, is it 'worth' spending $500 to make their $150 guitar better...no it isn't, or a $150 guitar wouldn't have appealed to them in the first place.

I have a feeling you are talking a lot of bull****, especially in this particular post.:bsflag: You sound more like a businessman than a musician.:banghead: Like one of these banker lawyers in Manhattan that hang expensive guitars that never get played on the walls of their high-rise office. You are obviously more concerned over value $$$ than playability & quality. Now when you say dumping $500 into a $150 guitar is a blunder, I find that to be shallow thinking and shows you are really not getting the point. You obviously think that spending more money on a guitar will automatically get you a good guitar. Not always the case. It's not 'black & white' like you are making it out to be. You can get some really descent guitars for $150 or even less and turn them into gems. It's your whole outlook on it and yours seems to be more motivated by money$$. To me, that limits your thinking. I own about 16 guitars myself and 4 of them are high-end ranging from $1,000 - $2,000. I'm currently working on some projects with guitars that are in the $150 range. These will be killer guitars and just as good as the high-end ones even though their value doesn't say so. I don't care about that! I just know I have a great guitar without paying a large price. Too much emphasis is put on the value of guitars which limits your mindset.:scratchch

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Blueman is no more or less biased or opinionated than the rest of us. He happens to dig installing American pickups into mid-priced Epiphone guitars rather than, for example, Fender ones.

Upgrading is a highly subjective matter.

Some instruments can be improved by changing components. On the other hand, there is only so far that one can impose one's will against the natural capabilities of a particular design. The easiest way to get a good blackguard Tele sound is to invest in a guitar that sounds like that to begin with. No amount of coil splitting and capacitors is going to produce the same result.

After a fair bit of pickup and/or magnet swapping, you should develop an ear for which pickups are likely to match which guitars. If you have pickups stashed away in your guitar parts drawer, you should recognise which of these will be an improvement over the disappointing stock pickup in a guitar on which you are working.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

I have a feeling you are talking a lot of bull****, especially in this particular post. You sound more like a businessman than a musician.:banghead: Like one of these banker lawyers in Manhattan that hang expensive guitars that never get played on the walls of their high-rise office. You are obviously more concerned over value $$$ than playability & quality. Now when you say dumping $500 into a $150 guitar is a blunder, I find that to be shallow thinking and shows you are really not getting the point. You obviously think that spending more money on a guitar will automatically get you a good guitar. Not always the case. It's not 'black & white' like you are making it out to be. You can get some really descent guitars for $150 or even less and turn them into gems. It's your whole outlook on it and yours seems to be more motivated by money$$. To me, that limits your thinking. I own about 16 guitars myself and 4 of them are high-end ranging from $1,000 - $2,000. I'm currently working on some projects with guitars that are in the $150 range. These will be killer guitars and just as good as the high-end ones even though their value doesn't say so. I don't care about that! I just know I have a great guitar without paying a large price. Too much emphasis is put on the value of guitars which limits your mindset.:scratchch

Slow down. When I say $150, I mean new retail cost, not a deal on a used one. I have a friend that got a Gibson LP Studio off a buddy for $200. An entry-level $150 guitar has cheap everything on it, and you can sink $500 of upgrades in it, and it's still a $150 guitar. It's not just a common sense financial decision, if the average player is going to spend that $650 on a guitar, as a musician it makes infinitely more sense to get a $500 guitar and put $150 of upgrades in that, than a $150 one and put $500 into it. You get better foundation of materials and workmanship to build on; it sounds better, it plays better. There's a price point at which a manufacturer has to scrimp on everything to be able to make money on a bottom end guitar. Those are the ones to avoid. I've seen them, they're horrible. You don't get 'playability and quality' on a guitar that retails for $150. As a guitarist, it does you little good to buy a pine/plywood guitar with the cheapest imaginable PU's and hardware. What's the point? And to put hundreds of dollars into it? That's not a business decision. Unless you're a luthier who likes to putter around with projects like that, it's a horrble investment for a young guy. If his money's so tight that he has to settle for an entry-level guitar, he sure as hell shouldn't be pouring hundreds of dollars of upgrades into it, at any point. The average player can't even swap out PU's or a pot, so he's got to pay someone to do it for him, which only adds to the cost. Only a small percentage of players can do any kind of a set up, some can't even change their own strings. These are not handy guys to be buying a fixer-upper guitar. They probably don't even know how to adjust the action. For them it's a black hole and a losing proposition. Obviously you have some luthiery skills and this thread doesn't apply to those guys, I thought that was obvious. All bets are off with luthiers. This is about average guys who don't have the skills, experience, or equipment to do this stuff, and for them it's buying new PU's, hardware, tuners, vibrato bar, etc at full retail, and spending much more on that than the guitar cost new.

 

[oliverwade]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Imo, yes, only to an extent. On Stewmac they have loaded pickguards for about £30. Yes, still cheap pickups but it will drastically improve the tone quality. Upgrading any further would be a waste of time and money, a no no for me.

 

[Artie]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

It seems as though everyone is talking in terms of your "upgrades" being all new, off-the-shelf parts. I've upgraded several "junk-yard-dogs", but here's the trick. Stash some cash into an envelope somewhere. Then watch the Trading Post closely. I've snagged a Cool Rails for $15 because someone took an older style white one and tried to "paint" it black with a sharpie. (Sounds just as good.) I've snagged tuners for $10. Just keep an eye out. All kinds of great deals if you're quick on the trigger.

Also, wiring mods are fun on a cheapy. Here's how I did my boy's Bullet. (Even lower than a Affinity, I think.) Sounds killer. The DPDT switch is mounted where the 2nd tone pot would be.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

It seems as though everyone is talking in terms of your "upgrades" being all new, off-the-shelf parts. I've upgraded several "junk-yard-dogs", but here's the trick. Stash some cash into an envelope somewhere. Then watch the Trading Post closely. I've snagged a Cool Rails for $15 because someone took an older style white one and tried to "paint" it black with a sharpie. (Sounds just as good.) I've snagged tuners for $10. Just keep an eye out. All kinds of great deals if you're quick on the trigger.

Also, wiring mods are fun on a cheapy. Here's how I did my boy's Bullet. (Even lower than a Affinity, I think.) Sounds killer. The DPDT switch is mounted where the 2nd tone pot would be.

Right. Being handy and having extra parts lying around means you can upgrade for cheap. I always have spare PU's, tuners, bridges, stop bars, pots, caps, magnets, straps, straplocks, etc. Things I've gotten good deals on, or gotten in trade, or for free. I do all my own set ups and soldering. When I score a deal on a guitar, I don't have to buy anything else; I just rummage thru my boxes of parts.

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Slow down. When I say $150, I mean new retail cost, not a deal on a used one. I have a friend that got a Gibson LP Studio off a buddy for $200. An entry-level $150 guitar has cheap everything on it, and you can sink $500 of upgrades in it, and it's still a $150 guitar. It's not just a common sense financial decision, if the average player is going to spend that $650 on a guitar, as a musician it makes infinitely more sense to get a $500 guitar and put $150 of upgrades in that, than a $150 one and put $500 into it. You get better foundation of materials and workmanship to build on; it sounds better, it plays better. There's a price point at which a manufacturer has to scrimp on everything to be able to make money on a bottom end guitar. Those are the ones to avoid. I've seen them, they're horrible. You don't get 'playability and quality' on a guitar that retails for $150. As a guitarist, it does you little good to buy a pine/plywood guitar with the cheapest imaginable PU's and hardware. What's the point? And to put hundreds of dollars into it? That's not a business decision. Unless you're a luthier who likes to putter around with projects like that, it's a horrble investment for a young guy. If his money's so tight that he has to settle for an entry-level guitar, he sure as hell shouldn't be pouring hundreds of dollars of upgrades into it, at any point. The average player can't even swap out PU's or a pot, so he's got to pay someone to do it for him, which only adds to the cost. Only a small percentage of players can do any kind of a set up, some can't even change their own strings. These are not handy guys to be buying a fixer-upper guitar. They probably don't even know how to adjust the action. For them it's a black hole and a losing proposition. Obviously you have some luthiery skills and this thread doesn't apply to those guys, I thought that was obvious. All bets are off with luthiers. This is about average guys who don't have the skills, experience, or equipment to do this stuff, and for them it's buying new PU's, hardware, tuners, vibrato bar, etc at full retail, and spending much more on that than the guitar cost new.

At least this time you made yourself more clearer. Now guitars from Radio Shack or Walmart I tend to avoid because first of all, anything sold in these stores is cheap as cheap can be. But, on the other hand there are some Squier guitars that sell $199 brand new and some of these have great potential. If you don't have any luthier experience, then you might be screwed, but to say a small percentage of players don't know how to change their own pots and pick-ups might be an under statement. Many years ago guitarists were fiddling with pots and pick-ups, but not as much as today. Average guitarists are more knowledgeable & involved with their guitars than you might think or give credit. Of course if you are a beginner, than you're stuck in 'neutral'.:drive:

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Now I would love to ask the owner of this very lovely painted and heavily-modded Squier how much it cost him, or her?:scratchch Now this guitar is ultra-cool for a bargain guitar and the nice relicing that's appearing around the edges make this guitar priceless.:approve: It's Chevy Nomad turquoise really gives it that mojo and that's something you can't really do on a high-end Fender strat because changing it's colour would ruin the value. This guitar even looks more beautiful on Martha Stewart's 'B.C. limegrass green' bedsheets from her signature collection series available only in select locations out in Ventura, California.:naughty::14:

 

[blueman335]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

Average guitarists are more knowledgeable & involved with their guitars than you might think or give credit. Of course if you are a beginner, than you're stuck in 'neutral'.:drive:

I'm going by new members here, most of which have only changed strings on their guitars, and have no idea that a mere mortal can do anything else. When I go to see live music, I usually talk to the guitarists between breaks, and almost all of them are equally uninformed, even though they're good players. Maybe it's just bluesplayers, but these guys rarely have any idea what PU's are in their guitars ('stock' is almost always the answer) or what pot values are and what they do, let alone anything like basic set-ups or changing magnets. I mean I've talked to dozens of these guys. They know the string gauge and that's about it; they have a tech do any work that needs to be done. So to artfully tie this back in to the original topic, these are guys that should not be doing much upgrading on cheap (original retail price) guitars.

Not that everyone here is a whiz luthier by any means, but when I venture outside this forum and talk to guitar players, the knowledge level usually drops drastically. They pretty much 'only want to play' and are generally adverse to 'fiddling around' doing work on their guitars.

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Is it worth upgrading?

I'm going by new members here, most of which have only changed strings on their guitars, and have no idea that a mere mortal can do anything else. When I go to see live music, I usually talk to the guitarists between breaks, and almost all of them are equally uninformed, even though they're good players. Maybe it's just bluesplayers, but these guys rarely have any idea what PU's are in their guitars ('stock' is almost always the answer) or what pot values are and what they do, let alone anything like basic set-ups or changing magnets. I mean I've talked to dozens of these guys. They know the string gauge and that's about it; they have a tech do any work that needs to be done. So to artfully tie this back in to the original topic, these are guys that should not be doing much upgrading on cheap (original retail price) guitars.

Not that everyone here is a whiz luthier by any means, but when I venture outside this forum and talk to guitar players, the knowledge level usually drops drastically. They pretty much 'only want to play' and are generally adverse to 'fiddling around' doing work on their guitars.

That is a bit surprising to hear because I know quite a few guitarists that do their own mods and their skill levels vary. And they also know their string gauges. Maybe it's just 'blues players'. The 'blues' is enough to worry about, let alone guitar electronics and guitar customization. What's the average age of these players? I guess it varies from one group of guitar players to another. But I have met other guitars that play pretty awesome, but know really nothing much about their guitar as far as electronics and pick-ups go, etc. Except for the string gauge, they always seem to know that.:drill: