Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
- Thread starter cokekolev
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
I would say that it is basically a PAF "style" pickup, meaning that it's a fairly standard, fairly traditional humbucker design. I'm not talking about every detail of its construction, just it's basic design. It's PAF based, I guess you'd say, but does not attempt to be true to PAFs. Most importantly, it gives you a variation of PAF tone that, if it existed at all, was somewhat rare "back in the day." 70 percent of PAFs used A4 magnets, and a good deal of the other 30 percent used A2. A5 was probably the least common PAF magnet alloy. As such, the Jazz is not really associated with a "classic" PAF tone by most people.
That said, IMO most of what people call "classic PAF tone" is actually production values, not the pickups themselves. You can certainly nail classic tones with the Jazz models, if you know how to dial in tone using amps, effects, e.q., etc. Jazz models are good basic, clean, dry pickups that can be tweaked quite a lot by way of amp settings and the like.
I would say that it is basically a PAF "style" pickup, meaning that it's a fairly standard, fairly traditional humbucker design. I'm not talking about every detail of its construction, just it's basic design. It's PAF based, I guess you'd say, but does not attempt to be true to PAFs. Most importantly, it gives you a variation of PAF tone that, if it existed at all, was somewhat rare "back in the day." 70 percent of PAFs used A4 magnets, and a good deal of the other 30 percent used A2. A5 was probably the least common PAF magnet alloy. As such, the Jazz is not really associated with a "classic" PAF tone by most people.
That said, IMO most of what people call "classic PAF tone" is actually production values, not the pickups themselves. You can certainly nail classic tones with the Jazz models, if you know how to dial in tone using amps, effects, e.q., etc. Jazz models are good basic, clean, dry pickups that can be tweaked quite a lot by way of amp settings and the like.
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idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Although it is comparable in terms of output, it is a generation removed in terms of it's design philosophy. I don't think it can be claimed that it was intended to be a recreation of any historical humbucker?
Although it is comparable in terms of output, it is a generation removed in terms of it's design philosophy. I don't think it can be claimed that it was intended to be a recreation of any historical humbucker?
cokekolev
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
What is its design philosophy?
What is its design philosophy?
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Enhanced clarity with vintage output level.
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
I don't think any of Duncans offerings are designed as PAF clones, more PAF style, or low output.
There are various aspects of the PAF, the wind : pattern, tension, turns per layer, and the curious artifact of them being wound on a machine not designed for that gauge of wire. Then you have the offest from coil to coil, the inconsistency of the wire gauge itself (some is over or under spec in size), the precise metals used for baseplates, keeper bars, slugs and screws, and most importantly the metallic composition and impurities in the magnet.
Then there are the cosmetics of the cover shape, the 'L' imprint on the baseplate feet etc. These are the elements which the boutique winders try and get right, so it looks (and hopefully also sounds) like an original. This isn't cheap, and the clones can be quite pricey if you are only used to the major winder's prices.
A lot of this has only come to light in more recent years as the prices have got so high for the originals that they are out of range for most people, and clones become very 'affordable' as a result.
The Duncan offerings are a take on a tonal ballpark. There is no attempt to make the details correct, the wind and materials are chosen to get a certain sound, and have it repeatable for mass production.
The 59 is that bright punchy tone sort of like a 60's pat#, the jazz is a flat eq pickup, the PG has elements of a p90 about the tone, the Seth Lover is like a take on the '57 design.
I don't think any of Duncans offerings are designed as PAF clones, more PAF style, or low output.
There are various aspects of the PAF, the wind : pattern, tension, turns per layer, and the curious artifact of them being wound on a machine not designed for that gauge of wire. Then you have the offest from coil to coil, the inconsistency of the wire gauge itself (some is over or under spec in size), the precise metals used for baseplates, keeper bars, slugs and screws, and most importantly the metallic composition and impurities in the magnet.
Then there are the cosmetics of the cover shape, the 'L' imprint on the baseplate feet etc. These are the elements which the boutique winders try and get right, so it looks (and hopefully also sounds) like an original. This isn't cheap, and the clones can be quite pricey if you are only used to the major winder's prices.
A lot of this has only come to light in more recent years as the prices have got so high for the originals that they are out of range for most people, and clones become very 'affordable' as a result.
The Duncan offerings are a take on a tonal ballpark. There is no attempt to make the details correct, the wind and materials are chosen to get a certain sound, and have it repeatable for mass production.
The 59 is that bright punchy tone sort of like a 60's pat#, the jazz is a flat eq pickup, the PG has elements of a p90 about the tone, the Seth Lover is like a take on the '57 design.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
And Seth's and Ant's aren't an honest attempt to duplicate vintage PAF's?
And Seth's and Ant's aren't an honest attempt to duplicate vintage PAF's?
El Supremo
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Were PAF specs not all over the place? The pattern, the DC resistance, the balance between the coils? If so, anything with A2, A3, A4 or A5 magnets and plain enamel wire and a DC reading between like 6K and 8K could be considered a PAF variant.
Not sure about the Jazz wire coating. Thought it was polysol. Someone?
Were PAF specs not all over the place? The pattern, the DC resistance, the balance between the coils? If so, anything with A2, A3, A4 or A5 magnets and plain enamel wire and a DC reading between like 6K and 8K could be considered a PAF variant.
Not sure about the Jazz wire coating. Thought it was polysol. Someone?
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
I consider these Duncans attempts at exact reproductions of P.A.F. pickups.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/sh55_seth_lover/
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/1101405_humbuck/
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/1101401_humbuck/
http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/greenie/
http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/joe-bonamassa-set/
I consider these Duncans attempts at exact reproductions of P.A.F. pickups.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/sh55_seth_lover/
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/1101405_humbuck/
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/vintage-output/1101401_humbuck/
http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/greenie/
http://customshop.seymourduncan.com/joe-bonamassa-set/
chadd
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
I think this is the best answer. It is not, and was never intended to be a PAF type pickup. Just because it has a lower output, does not mean it was supposed to be a PAF.
I think this is the best answer. It is not, and was never intended to be a PAF type pickup. Just because it has a lower output, does not mean it was supposed to be a PAF.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
The Jazz has far more in common with a T top than a PAF type...any PAf type whether an idealized , this is how they were supposed to be made version like a 59 or Seth with pretty to look at precision wound coils, or a asymmetrical whackadoo wind like the vast majority of actual production PAF pickups.
The Jazz has far more in common with a T top than a PAF type...any PAf type whether an idealized , this is how they were supposed to be made version like a 59 or Seth with pretty to look at precision wound coils, or a asymmetrical whackadoo wind like the vast majority of actual production PAF pickups.
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
PAF's were constructed to a general specification and the Jazz was engineered for a specific purpose. The Jazz was a conscious effort to design a pickup which addressed perceived weaknesses in the original PAF design.
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cokekolev
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Nice! Although I wasn't looking for a specific answer while asking an honest question, fueled by curiosity, this might be THE answer.
Nice! Although I wasn't looking for a specific answer while asking an honest question, fueled by curiosity, this might be THE answer.
audiocheck
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Look at the Jazz being an improved version of a modern PAF style.
Because, at the time Gibson was making poor quality pickups. (Funny how a company that has such saught after early humbuckers wound up making such poor ones to this day.). Anyway the Jazz neck may have been the first of its kind. I think the bridge version came later. I would guess it was intended to bring clairity and articulation to an often muddy offering. It it is also possible that it was ment for the neck of a Tele. I have one in the neck of a Les Paul and while it does not offer that classic LP sound, it does delivery on its intent to be clear. It does have a spank quality that you don't often get in a LP. It would probably sound awesome wired in parallel. I have no clue of its construction or how it compares to other PAF pickups. If you are looking for a high quality pickup with a voice of its own, it's a great choice. It has nice EQ balance, full not boomy. Bright but not ice pick.
Sorry for rambling, hope this helps some.
Look at the Jazz being an improved version of a modern PAF style.
Because, at the time Gibson was making poor quality pickups. (Funny how a company that has such saught after early humbuckers wound up making such poor ones to this day.). Anyway the Jazz neck may have been the first of its kind. I think the bridge version came later. I would guess it was intended to bring clairity and articulation to an often muddy offering. It it is also possible that it was ment for the neck of a Tele. I have one in the neck of a Les Paul and while it does not offer that classic LP sound, it does delivery on its intent to be clear. It does have a spank quality that you don't often get in a LP. It would probably sound awesome wired in parallel. I have no clue of its construction or how it compares to other PAF pickups. If you are looking for a high quality pickup with a voice of its own, it's a great choice. It has nice EQ balance, full not boomy. Bright but not ice pick.
Sorry for rambling, hope this helps some.
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Seths have balanced coils, as do the ants I think.
I wouldn't necessarily call them a PAF clone, they miss out on too many of the nitpicking details for that. Although they are in the PAF style. The rest of Duncans 'PAF' offerings I'd describe as low output.
Seths have balanced coils, as do the ants I think.
I wouldn't necessarily call them a PAF clone, they miss out on too many of the nitpicking details for that. Although they are in the PAF style. The rest of Duncans 'PAF' offerings I'd describe as low output.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Thats great, but I am answering the thread title question......??? The Jazz has more in common with a T-Top than a PAF. of any stripe. It has even balanced winds, is wax potted, has a polished long A5 mag, and uses polysol wire. None of which are hallmarks of PAF, except possibly the rare fluke of a PAF that has fairly even winds. T_tops at least used polysol, have balanced coils, and low output spec with a strong magnet. That said, T-Tops and Jazz' sound nothing alike either.
The Jazz's intended purpose is another issue entirely, and you'll get no argument from me there, as I do not know it's "story".
Thats great, but I am answering the thread title question......??? The Jazz has more in common with a T-Top than a PAF. of any stripe. It has even balanced winds, is wax potted, has a polished long A5 mag, and uses polysol wire. None of which are hallmarks of PAF, except possibly the rare fluke of a PAF that has fairly even winds. T_tops at least used polysol, have balanced coils, and low output spec with a strong magnet. That said, T-Tops and Jazz' sound nothing alike either.
The Jazz's intended purpose is another issue entirely, and you'll get no argument from me there, as I do not know it's "story".
Falloffthebonetone
New member
Re: Is the Seymour Duncan Jazz considered a PAF type pickup?
Don't the Jazz pickups have a thinner wire or something than a typical PAF style?
Don't the Jazz pickups have a thinner wire or something than a typical PAF style?
