Is this wiring right?

[Laimon]

Hi, I gave my guitar to a luthier to switch pickups (stock dimarzios with SD Pegazus and Sentient) and asked to achieve a particular combination of the pickups with a 5 way switch, and he asked to provide a wiring myself because he's not gonna work out the wiring himself.
Besides the fact that one with such experience probably could (or should be able to) in a very short time, fine by me.
So, I devised two options.
First option:

Here I modified a SD wiring to have
position 1 => bridge hb
position 2 => bridge north coil + neck south coil
position 3 => neck south coil
position 4 => neck south coil + neck hb
position 5 => neck hb

Do you think it's correct? I can't find any flaws with it, but since the guy doesn't want to put any brains into it, I'd like to hear other opinions before letting him start.
Here is a second, probably better option:

The difference here is that in position four I connect ground in between coils of the neck hb, so I get
position 4 => neck north coil

I don't expect to have big tonal differences between north and south coil of the same hb, but it probably sound better than hb + coil of the same hb, which probably gets just messy.
What do you guys think?

Thanks!

PS: the images at the bottom list the positions of the original diagram, but here they have no relation with the wiring.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Is this wiring right?

First option:

Here I modified a SD wiring to have
position 1 => bridge hb
position 2 => bridge north coil + neck south coil
position 3 => neck south coil
position 4 => neck south coil + neck hb
position 5 => neck hb

If you are calling position 1 what should be the bridge position, to my eye it looks like that drawing does the following:

1 Neck humbucker
2 Neck slug coil
3 Neck slug coil
4 Bridge slug coil + Neck slug coil
5 Bridge slug coil

You might want to look at the blade switch in this diagram. A 5-way is the same orientation and same common lugs, it just adds the 2 and 4 mix.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=3ws_trans

 

[Laimon]

Re: Is this wiring right?

I don't know about that switch, but this switch is like the fender type in the following:



(I have import type, but that's not an issue)
Now, I don't believe you're reading it right.
On the left pole, the output is always going from the common (lug 4 going downwards) from a combination of the lugs above (1,1+2,2,2+3,3), while in the meantime on the right pole the common (1st lug) is not connected and lug 2 to 4 are used for "controlling" the pickup splitting (in a way). (I'll explain in more detail below)
It seems to me that you're reading it
a) upside down (but on that I might be wrong myself, which is no biggie: one just turns the switch the other way around later to use it properly)
b) with the controls always on

Observe that the splitting on the bridge happens only in position 2 (when lugs 3 and 4 touch on the right pole, thus grounding the bridge's south coil).

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Is this wiring right?

Position #1 should be the bridge. Do you see how you have the neck wired to position #1?

 

[Laimon]

Re: Is this wiring right?

Ok, but that's just a matter of ordering: if you then flip the switch it will go from position 5 to position 1 and behave like you expected.


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[Laimon]

Re: Is this wiring right?

(It is also easy to switch the ordering: it suffice to swap connections from lug 1 to lug 3 on both poles)


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[GuitarDoc]

Re: Is this wiring right?

Here I modified a SD wiring to have
position 1 => bridge hb
position 2 => bridge north coil + neck south coil
position 3 => neck south coil
position 4 => neck south coil + neck hb
position 5 => neck hb

Do you think it's correct? I can't find any flaws with it, but since the guy doesn't want to put any brains into it, I'd like to hear other opinions before letting him start.

You don't see any flaws with position 4 ("neck south coil + neck hb")?

 

[Laimon]

Re: Is this wiring right?

You don't see any flaws with position 4 ("neck south coil + neck hb")?

Honestly, no. Please elaborate.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Is this wiring right?

(neck south coil + neck hb is impossible because you can't have the same pickup in both split coil and hb mode at the same time.)

I think it will help if we look at what is hooked up in each switch position.

Position #1 (typically bridge position)

So we have neck black to positive, red+white together on a post and green to ground. That is neck by itself in humbucker mode.




Position #2

Now we have the neck red+white bridged to neck black, which gives you the neck slug coil by itself. Bridge pup is not hooked to anything yet.




Position #3

Now neck black is disconnected, neck red+white are hot, which still just gives you the neck slug coil by itself. Bridge is still not hooked to anything yet.




Position #4

Now we have neck red+white on hot, which is neck slug coil, then bridge black on hot with bridge red+white grounded, which gives you bridge screw coil, I believe.




Position #5

Now we have bridge black on hot with bridge red+white connected together, which is bridge by itself in humbucking mode.




So I made two misstatements earlier regarding positions 4-5. But looking at the above, here's what it appears that wiring does:

1. Neck humbucker
2. Neck slug coil
3. Neck slug coil
4. Neck slug coil + bridge screw coil
5. Bridge humbucker

Flipping the wiring, so position 1 is the bridge, yields this:

1. Bridge humbucker
2. Neck slug coil + bridge screw coil
3. Neck slug coil
4. Neck slug coil
5. Neck humbucker

But either way, it's still not quite what was expected. Or is it?

 

[Laimon]

Re: Is this wiring right?

(neck south coil + neck hb is impossible because you can't have the same pickup in both split coil and hb mode at the same time.)

I think it will help if we look at what is hooked up in each switch position.

Position #1 (typically bridge position)

So we have neck black to positive, red+white together on a post and green to ground. That is neck by itself in humbucker mode.

View attachment 56018


Position #2

Now we have the neck red+white bridged to neck black, which gives you the neck slug coil by itself. Bridge pup is not hooked to anything yet.

View attachment 56019


Position #3

Now neck black is disconnected, neck red+white are hot, which still just gives you the neck slug coil by itself. Bridge is still not hooked to anything yet.

View attachment 56020


Position #4

Now we have neck red+white on hot, which is neck slug coil, then bridge black on hot with bridge red+white grounded, which gives you bridge screw coil, I believe.

View attachment 56021


Position #5

Now we have bridge black on hot with bridge red+white connected together, which is bridge by itself in humbucking mode.

View attachment 56022


So I made two misstatements earlier regarding positions 4-5. But looking at the above, here's what it appears that wiring does:

1. Neck humbucker
2. Neck slug coil
3. Neck slug coil
4. Neck slug coil + bridge screw coil
5. Bridge humbucker

Flipping the wiring, so position 1 is the bridge, yields this:

1. Bridge humbucker
2. Neck slug coil + bridge screw coil
3. Neck slug coil
4. Neck slug coil
5. Neck humbucker

But either way, it's still not quite what was expected. Or is it?

Hi Beaubrummels, that's quite the best answer I could ask for! I really wanted to hear out some logic to measure it against my understanding of the wiring.
So, ok, I agree with everything you say.
The only open point in the this diagram was the 4th position, I wasn't sure what would happen there. If I understand correctly now, we get the slug coil only because the when the selector touches slug coil and hot at the same time, the potential at hot is "grounded" (in the sense of brought back to the initial potential before screw coil) by the potential of the slug coil.
In the light of this, I also understand that in the other diagram, in position 4, the whole connection would be grounded so I would get no sound, hence this is also not desirable.

I must say that this settings are not far from what I want to achieve. I could be ok with the first one, even though one position is redundant.
Do you see any enhancement to this diagram, that would achieve a different combination on the 4th position?
Thanks

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Is this wiring right?

I'm not seeing anything you can do that will only affect the one redundant neck slug coil position.

One mod would be to move the neck red/white over to the other tab 1. I believe this would give you

1. Neck humbucker
2. Neck slug coil
3. Neck and Bridge humbucker
4. Bridge slug coil
5. Bridge humbucker

It's a variation of this diagram, adapted for 2 hums.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/suppor...tics.php?schematic=lilhum_sing_lilhum_1v_2t_s

Another I thought was interesting. Has a lot of variety for a simple 5-way auto-split, and sounds useful.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2hb_1vol_1tone_5way

Problem is there is a limit to how much splitting and what not you can do on a simple 5-way since the pickups have 4 conductors each and the switch has 8 available but 2 are common and needed for where you are routing the signal to. To get any trickier I think you need a Super 5-way switch, which has 4 common terminals and 20 available lugs for routing signals around.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Is this wiring right?

(I have import type but that's not an issue)

Am I the only person here who sees the folly of installing two hundred Dollars worth of brand new SD pickups through the notoriously unreliable eight-in-a-line import selector switch?

Surely, this pickup upgrade is the ideal opportunity to install a professional quality selector switch? You could even chose a fancy one that facilitates all of the required coil permutations.

It might help to know what guitar is being modified. At the very least, this would provide some clue as to how generous the control cavity is. In the case of some Ibanez models, it is possible that the PCB selector switch is actually one of the special OTAX ones with its clever track layout that gives combinations such as Inside Coils and Neck HB with coils wired in parallel. (If you have this type of switch, no circuit based upon the conventional CRL switch is going to work anyhow.)