Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

[Northwinds]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

Is this with the strings fretted at the last fret or just open unfretted stings?

fretted at last fret

 

[wanmei1]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

I go by the Bill Lawrence recommendation using a nickel that Gene (BTMN) turned me on to quite awhile ago. One width under the treble side and 2 widths on the bass side. Perfect everytime

I disagree with this or any method.
There is no one size ( method ) fits all unless of course you don't have your own preferences.

Players are individuals both in their playing and their preferences.

What happens if you prefer the tone closer or farther away from the strings regardless of what Mr. Lawrece and his nickel or the manufacturers hanbook recommends ?

If one guitar has 8 gauge strings ( weak movement of the pickups magnetic field ) and another has 13 gauge ( very strong movement ) then ?????

Dear Slash, you and or your tech. are not using the manufacturers nor Bill's method of pickup adjustment.
Dear Mr. Hendrix your guitar was not adjusted to the manufacturers recommended settings as stated in the manual.

No disrespect intended to Bill Lawrence or yourself. :1:

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

What happens if you prefer the tone closer or farther away from the strings regardless of what Mr. Lawrece and his nickel or the manufacturers hanbook recommends ?

If one guitar has 8 gauge strings ( weak movement of the pickups magnetic field ) and another has 13 gauge ( very strong movement ) then ?????

Basically I agree with you... but in my experience they're never that far away from factory recommended settings, which includes string gauge as well.

I consider FRS (factory recommended settings) an excellent starting point. The fine-tuning must be done by ear, though.

To prove my point there's Dan Erlewine's book "How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great!". The last chapter shows measurement from actual playing instruments from many famous guitar icons (B.B. King, SRV, etc.) taking'em directly at the stage and explained together with their actual techs. The differences from FRS and the actual settings were in most cases very small...

Having said that, I've noticed that guitars displayed in Music Stores rarely come with the actual FRS, even though are fresh from the factory. Looks like a bad joke, but nowadays quality control is not what it used to be. Not even CS instruments come with their own FRS and/or proper setups. That's why Gibson is making such a big deal of having their instruments "Plek'ed"...

Looks like today's managers don't grasp the concept of "twice as much is NOT twice as good".

I should be happy because I get paid for doing instrument setups... but somehow I'm not. Funny, isn't it?

 

[baritone]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

One of the first things I do after I purchase a guitar is adjusting the pickup heights. The Mexico Telecaster I bought about a year ago was set up perfectly, but I still wanted to do it my way.

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

to clarify.. so, if i want to "brighten" a sound of a guitar (or string), I would lower the the pickup and raise the pole(s). Vice-versa, to "warm" a guitar or string, I would lower the pole(s) and raise the pickup?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

to clarify.. so, if i want to "brighten" a sound of a guitar (or string), I would lower the the pickup and raise the pole(s). Vice-versa, to "warm" a guitar or string, I would lower the pole(s) and raise the pickup?

You are focusing on the EQ too much. The EQ of a pickup is an irrelevant detail compared to how it reacts to playing.

The closer a pickup is to the string the more nonlinear distortion you have (from the changing view, not from magnet pull) and the stronger it reacts to play. This can quickly become over the top and you might get much nicer sound with the pickup down.

Getting the polepieces out drives the sound (not surprisingly) in a P-90tish direction, with a stronger "DANNNNNG" coming in in particular from low strings played at low frets, the typical single coil thing that humbuckers normally kill.

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

You are focusing on the EQ too much. The EQ of a pickup is an irrelevant detail compared to how it reacts to playing.

The closer a pickup is to the string the more nonlinear distortion you have (from the changing view, not from magnet pull) and the stronger it reacts to play. This can quickly become over the top and you might get much nicer sound with the pickup down.

Getting the polepieces out drives the sound (not surprisingly) in a P-90tish direction, with a stronger "DANNNNNG" coming in in particular from low strings played at low frets, the typical single coil thing that humbuckers normally kill.

Cool - thanks, that's a great explaination! I think i need to lower the bridge pickup and raise the poles a little on my LP Standard.. The low strings at low frets is precicely where I'm having issues - some "DANNNNNG" is exactly what I need!!! The guitar is pretty dark sounding - even with the '59.

 

[wanmei1]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

to clarify.. so, if i want to "brighten" a sound of a guitar (or string), I would lower the the pickup and raise the pole(s). Vice-versa, to "warm" a guitar or string, I would lower the pole(s) and raise the pickup?

You got it. Also :
Lower the the bass side of the pickup down to reduce bass.
Raise the treble side of the pickup up to increase top end and vica versa.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

its like foucusing a camera lens....

 

[RockStarNick]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

its like foucusing a camera lens....

GREAT analogy.

 

[The Usual]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

One of the best threads in a while. This and intonation are mandatory before you consider swapping anything. Anyone know how far you can screw in a screw on a standard humbucker? I have some that seem to stick a little, and I don't want to push it. Is there a limit or a risk of damage from over tightening.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

Yep, although it differs from one pickup to another i.e. there are pickups where you hardly hear a difference and others where even the most minute adjustments change everything (yeah, including 1/8th turns of a pole piece).

At one guitar I ended up lowering the pickup almost flush to the body (well under the ring's height) and raising the pole pieces almost as high as they go to get the proper tone.
In another I had the neck flush to the ring, the bridge a little higher to compensate and the pole pieces just following the neck's radius. Pure magic.

 

[wanmei1]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

Basically I agree with you... but in my experience they're never that far away from factory recommended settings, which includes string gauge as well.

I consider FRS (factory recommended settings) an excellent starting point. The fine-tuning must be done by ear, though.

I understand what your saying, however.......

I think some players are way too concerned with specs.
Perhaps they don't trust their own judgment or maybe worried they'll stuff it up or some other reason.

I personally have no idea as to any of my gits factory recommendations
for anything. I don't really care what they are either, as I'm only interested in what my ears tell me. If that's the same as factory specs, well that's nice, if it ain't.........

If you go to Lollar pickups web site there's a video of Jason talking and demonstrating how to adjust pickups.
Now I'm not suggesting that if Jason says this or that, then he must be right, it's just interesting to come across a similar view.
Basically what Jason says is:... grab a screwdriver and twiddle till it sounds right to you.

"Hey LtKojak those pickups sound and play awesome but they're not set to factory specs, let me adjust em' for you.....
There, that's better! Hmmm ...they don't sound all that good anymore, but what's important is that they're now set according to recommendations."

You get my drift.:1:

 

[Thunder]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

How do stores expect to sell them? They don't sound very good, and play like crap. Instead of standing around during slow times, the sales staff should be doing some basic set up and cleaning. If I was manager, it would be required. Get your merchandise at it's best so you don't lose the sale to a competitor. This is a brutal market for music stores & they have to adapt to survive.

Thank You!

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

How do stores expect to sell them? They don't sound very good, and play like crap. Instead of standing around during slow times, the sales staff should be doing some basic set up and cleaning. If I was manager, it would be required. Get your merchandise at it's best so you don't lose the sale to a competitor. This is a brutal market for music stores & they have to adapt to survive.

i've only played a well setup instrument at guitar center once. it was because of the fact that i told one of the salesmen that i was looking to buy something in the next few weeks and it was the last half hour before closing time. he actually set it up(truss rod, action, pickups) before i played it. i ended up buying that instrument(my sg faded)

 

[Thunder]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

i've only played a well setup instrument at guitar center once. it was because of the fact that i told one of the salesmen that i was looking to buy something in the next few weeks and it was the last half hour before closing time. he actually set it up(truss rod, action, pickups) before i played it. i ended up buying that instrument(my sg faded)

Yeah, 'buying' was the magic word.

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

Yeah, 'buying' was the magic word.

i know. also the fact that it was almost closing time and the guy was bored outta his mind

 

[dazzlindino]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

Man, the closer you can get the d and g strings to the pickup the better off you are...
but when I do that my e's ,a and b strings rub....any suggestions.........

 

[alex1fly]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

I think some players are way too concerned with specs.
Perhaps they don't trust their own judgment or maybe worried they'll stuff it up or some other reason.

I know I've been guilty of this, and realized it about the same time I realized that - brace yourselves - Pickups have no Tone of their own! They just transmit the guitar's sound, so most of the debates and discussions about pickups and their sound are useless and/or repeated time and time again. I thought I needed "the right pickups" to get the tones I wanted, but all of "needing the right pickups to match guitar/amp" and whatnot, it's mostly BS - and hands on strings.

Tips: Don't spend too much time 'thinking' about guitar rather than playing!
My favorite: tweak and explore what you have fully, before considering another purchase.
Or: Play your GUITAR, not your PICKUPS.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Isn't it insane how height adjustment changes the tone so much?

I know I've been guilty of this, and realized it about the same time I realized that - brace yourselves - Pickups have no Tone of their own! They just transmit the guitar's sound, so most of the debates and discussions about pickups and their sound are useless and/or repeated time and time again. I thought I needed "the right pickups" to get the tones I wanted, but all of "needing the right pickups to match guitar/amp" and whatnot, it's mostly BS - and hands on strings.

Not true. If it was true, then every pickup would sound exactly alike.