It's extremely difficult to pick fast and smoothly at the same time

[Phantasmagoria]

I usually pick pretty forcefully for the shreddier bits & use everything from a a 3mm stubby (this clip) to Jazz II & III's. But if I'm playing a lighter tune I'll use a lighter touch...nothing's written in stone & there's no one way that works for every situation or every player imo..

 

[Gtrjunior]

My pick is definitely angled to the string so I know I'm doing that right. But to strike the string with just let's say just the tip of the pick is extremely difficult. It seems like it's just natural to have more than just the tip of the pick below the string. Kinda like someone telling you to go ice skating but only lightly graze the surface of the ice with your skates. Pretty impossible.

As suggested, watch Troy Grady’s Cracking the Code series.
It’s more about the angle and less about how much pick strikes the string.
Once you watch it, it will become clear. He explains it in painstaking detail.

 

[Gtrjunior]

You can play fast with whatever you're used to. Paul Gilbert uses standard sized very thin picks too from what I recall, and he's got to be one of the best fast pickers ever. Usually people who use full sized picks learn to choke up on the tip quite a bit when playing fast passages. The OP was saying he's digging in too hard - putting too much tip into the string. A small pick forces you to fix this problem simply because there is less sticking out.

A handful of years ago I saw the Generation Axe tour.
I caught a pick from Nuno, Yngwie and Zakk. All of them use picks that would fall into the medium category. I would have though they would be using thicker picks than they do.

 

[devastone]

How much do you practice and are you practicing so fast you are sloppy? Also are you practicing what Troy Grady calls "chunking", meaning accenting every 3rd or 4th stroke. It's like talking, we start having to spell out every word, then we read words as one "thing" when we see it, that's when we can for sentences with minimal effort. It's kinda the same idea, you can't play fast if you have to think of every note, you have to think in phrases.

The other thing, if you are having trouble with consistency (pick depth, hand motion, etc...) when you are just sitting around, watching TV, whatever, pick on one string (b string seems to be a good choice), accenting every 3rd note, at a speed that you can keep everything consistent, meaning not so fast you are making mistakes, start by paying attention to what you are doing (maybe without the TV), then when it becomes automatic at a reasonable speed, just keep your hand moving. It will train your muscles to be consistent as you speed up, so these things are relaxed and automatic.

The other suggestions are great too, Stetina's Mechanics books, Troy Grady's website, Claus Levin's alternate picking videos and courses, lots of roads lead to the destination, but it takes some travel time. All the guys "we" want to play like (GIlbert, EVH, Nuno, Morse, di Meola*, etc...) got there by spending lots of time.

*I don't recommend di Meola's speed technique, it is a very tense, from the elbow motion and when I watch him play (I saw him this year at the Boulder Theater) I'm surprised he has been able to play this long without damage.

 

[Napthol]

A handful of years ago I saw the Generation Axe tour.
I caught a pick from Nuno, Yngwie and Zakk. All of them use picks that would fall into the medium category. I would have though they would be using thicker picks than they do.

Yngwie uses a 1.5 mm Dunlop. That is a heavy and thick pick.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Yngwie uses a 1.5 mm Dunlop. That is a heavy and thick pick.

I’ll look at it when I get home. I don’t remember it being that thick. Maybe it is…? That’s the thickness I use.

 

[Napthol]

I'm aware of most of the things people have suggested here. I have tried different angles, different picks and thicknesses. It's simply a hard thing for me to do. You've gotta have the correct picking mechanics or you will have problems. And we aren't all meant to pick the same way. I believe in the end each person must find his own way.

 

[devastone]

Time and consistency, no shortcuts, no matter hard we try to find them. Yes, everyone has their own variation, but be aware that some don't work, after that it's putting in the time.

I quit working on if for a long time and I'm working to get it back, but I'm also older and my limit may have lowered, and/or be harder to reach. I'm not against throwing some legato notes in phrases to help them along.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

^^ yup ..and some tapping

 

[Open lane]

You know, it's not something I've had issues with for a while but last time I hung out with a friend of mine he was very persistent discussing pick angles for up/down strokes. He is top notch so I take anything he says seriously.


The one thing I suggest to anyone is the realization that it also requires a level of maintenance, after your technique is at the level you want. I honestly don't play much any more but i find it takes like 10-20mins of slow repetition to get back to true form day to day.


the biggest thing you can do to speed the process along is to make your motions as consistent as possible. Metronome can be handy, but just practicing musically got me where I wanted to be

 

[solspirit]

Find an angle you like and practice EVERY DAY for at least 15 minutes. Practice until it hurts, practice until youre frustrated and then practice some more.

 

[GuitarStv]

Practice until it hurts

As someone who has given himself some extremely painful tendonitis from guitar practice that lingered for weeks, I would strongly advise that if it hurts you need to change your practice.

 

[solspirit]

As someone who has given himself some extremely painful tendonitis from guitar practice that lingered for weeks, I would strongly advise that if it hurts you need to change your practice.

I'm not saying to push until you inflict damage, trust me I've had tendinitis and bursitis and Ive had osteo arthitis since I was about 30. Its going to hurt.
Do all the preventative measures that you can. Pressure cuffs for your forearms ánd a big bowl of ice water water as soon as youre done followed by a lidocaine cream.

 

[El Dunco]

As someone who has given himself some extremely painful tendonitis from guitar practice that lingered for weeks, I would strongly advise that if it hurts you need to change your practice.

Same. I was hit by a car when I was 15. The soft tissue injury made me have to change my technique over the years when I started getting RSI. It was for the best though as it’s better sounding and more efficient than the old way.

 

[Demanic]

Picking fast and smooth shouldn't result in tendinitis. Carpal tunnel, maybe. But like with any exercise, make sure that your form is good. If anything causes a sharp pain, stop immediately.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Napthol]

I still experiment with different ways of picking and holding the pick. I know what method of holding the pick feels the most comfortable to me and even when I try to hold the pick in a different place it always seems to move back down to the position I like the best.

I also like the idea of picking from your thumb and index finger, but the people on the Cracking The Code site, plus Tom Hess recommended against picking that way. I've seen both Yngwie and Joe Stump use the technique so I don't understand what problem with it is.

Troy Grady's premise is all about downward pickslanting with an upwards escape motion. I still try that also.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

I think my picking technique changes and varies based on the song at hand. Depending on fatigue and the way I want the strings to react. I've also changed picks recently to the max grip jazz 3 carbon and that has allowed me to be more accurate, but also change picking style and techniques again. Always ways to adapt and improve.
I'm no speed picking guru for certain, but I don't agree that there is one way to pick.... Everyone does it their own way.

 

[Gtrjunior]

I still experiment with different ways of picking and holding the pick. I know what method of holding the pick feels the most comfortable to me and even when I try to hold the pick in a different place it always seems to move back down to the position I like the best.

I also like the idea of picking from your thumb and index finger, but the people on the Cracking The Code site, plus Tom Hess recommended against picking that way. I've seen both Yngwie and Joe Stump use the technique so I don't understand what problem with it is.

Troy Grady's premise is all about downward pickslanting with an upwards escape motion. I still try that also.

Troy Grady’s premise is more than just dwps. I don’t think you’ve actually watched enough of it.
I am an uwps naturally. Maybe you are too and that’s could be causing you some issues you’re not aware of yet.
I got and still get SO much from what he has done on the subject. I don’t think you’ve even chipped the surface of the premise.

 

[devastone]

Yes, Troy started with dwps years ago but has opened up to many different types of motion, especially after interviewing many players over the years. Claus Levin swears by an arcing motion where each direction is an escape motion. I think the key is pick something that works for you and practice, when you have it down, work on small modifications.

Relaxation is key to speed and it shouldn't be causing pain, if it is, that's probably a sign of tension.

 

[Archer250]

I'll be honest

The Troy Grady thing is fun to watch, but it's all a big nothing burger to obsess over. He even explained this in one of his vids that what he wanted was to create a lexicon where people could discuss mechanics in a standardized manner, like with bodybuilding.

I really really recommend Mike Phillippov, Rick Graham and Ben Kerrigan.