James Brown, designer of 5150 amp, talks about working with EVH

Based on the 30W Beast's weight it is Class AB. Class A requires a larger transformer and 11kg is too close to my VK II 20 MH's weight. I am hoping to get another burst or two of sleep in, but will go put my cans on and listen to that second clip you posted before breakfast. Thanks for posting those.
 
JamesPaul said:
Sorry, I like to think of English as a second language. I was interested in the one you noted has two 12AX7s in the preamp.

If this has a third 12AX7 in the power amp for the PI it would be easier for me to see 5150 gain levels. Then again, I already acknowledged Peavey gets really close with one tube in the Piranha. So, it is likely irrelevant.
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The new Fender EVH 5150 Iconic has 2 12AX7s, hasn't even been released yet so no schematics. I just used that one schematic to show that it takes both sides of a 12AX7 as a PI so I'm guessing the one with 2 12AX7s has a SS PI, or if one is a PI, it has some SS going on in the preamp. Either way doesn't bother me, not that I'm looking at one, I just bought a Bluguitar Iridium that is pretty much all SS with a nanotube in the power section to give it tube feel, and it works.

Point was to Erik's statement about the PI takes at least 1/2 of a 12AX7 as a PI but it really takes a whole one.
 
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Drak said:
Wow, I didn't know that either, kinda blown away by that.
However, maybe a clue...
During that 3-hour tech-fest, his wife Phyllis walked into the room for a brief second.
As she walked out, he mentioned she did the assembly for about 90% of the pedals manufactured here in the US.

I'd bet they're both getting up in age and she probably had had enough of it.
If Fender's offer was good enough, yeah, I can see it.
Just a guess...
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I didn’t know he and she had left.
I only have one product of theirs but it’s a fun one!

 
devastone said:
The new Fender EVH 5150 Iconic has 2 12AX7s, hasn't even been released yet so no schematics. I just used that one schematic to show that it takes both sides of a 12AX7 as a PI so I'm guessing the one with 2 12AX7s has a SS PI, or if one is a PI, it has some SS going on in the preamp. Either way doesn't bother me, not that I'm looking at one, I just bought a Bluguitar Iridium that is pretty much all SS with a nanotube in the power section to give it tube feel, and it works.

Point was to Erik's statement about the PI takes at least 1/2 of a 12AX7 as a PI but it really takes a whole one.
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A Long Tailed Pair PI uses two triodes, but a Cathodyne PI uses only one triode. The Cathodyne can suffer from a lot of issues the Long Tailed Pair corrects. Which is why most modern amps use a LTP, or some variant.

Still with James now at Fender EVH, he can leverage tech he developed at Amptweaker or concepts from the patented tech, and get plenty of gain outside of the tubes.

I did some testing today and have convinced myself the 5150 gain is not as high as I thought it was. So fingers crossed, I can let go of the only two preamp tubes.
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The thing is that laboga stresses in it's advertising that The beast has an "all-tube" preamp with just two 12Ax7's...like it's a selling point. And I see where they're coming from ' cause I did'nt expect anywhere near that much gain to come out of it. It's great for legato runs and tapping and stuff with the gain not even halfway up` & no boost/delay/reverb required. Maybe Peavey picked up some tips for this 5150 :lmao:

I'd like to hear this Iconic though. The Laboga is smooth and gainy as hell but not super-saturated/More thick but 'open' sounding with well-defined grain to it's mids. It's like a hot rodded Marshall & a Dual Recto had a baby. Wonder what the Iconic's gain is like? Apart from having a full EQ ..there are similarity's to the Laboga (2 switchable pre-set voicings etc)
 
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JamesPaul said:
I did some testing today and have convinced myself the 5150 gain is not as high as I thought it was. So fingers crossed, I can let go of the only two preamp tubes.
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Like I said haven't played the 5150 but the Bugera version, while it sounded cool, didn't bowl me over with how much gain it had coming out of those 6 or w/e preamp tubes. Similar levels to my AMT Stonehead (I think one of the lead channel's supposed to be based on a 5150 anyway) or my Randall..
 
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JamesPaul said:
.

Still with James now at Fender EVH, he can leverage tech he developed at Amptweaker or concepts from the patented tech, and get plenty of gain outside of the tubes.

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Yeah but here's the thing about the Iconic (from the product page):


PURE TUBE POWER

Two JJ ECC83S (12AX7) preamp tubes erupt with mega overdriven tone when pushed to the max, while four JJ 6L6 power tubes up the ante with plenty of saturated, high-gain attitude synonymous with Van Halen.


They're pretty much going the Laboga Beast route with their advertising... ie. the 2 x12AX7 "pure tube" power (implies no SS clipping) thing's going to get people's attention.. this is after all a 5150 we're talking about :D
 
I was able to do my Triple XXX Ultra channel - 6505 (5150) Lead channel gain comparison. Before I went to the basement studio to drag out the Triple XXX, I gave it a go on my VIP 3. I will note that the Triple XXX tone on my original Vypyr 75 is why I bought my Triple XXX in the first place. I did some comparisons of those and the models were quite accurate. The VIP models are even better.
  1. With all knobs at 12 o'clock on both, the gain was even
  2. Setting pre-gain to max on both, the gain was still even
  3. Setting post-gain to max on both, the 6505 wins but not by much
A surprising find was how little difference in tone there is between the two, with the tone stacks set to 12:00 o'clock. I did dial them around some and the tone does diverge.

I am convinced two preamp tubes are enough to get 5150 levels of gain. I should have spent more time with the 6505 models in the past, but I mistakenly thought I would never need that much gain.
 
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Two's all you need :D

Big EVH fan but never really ever been interested in 5150/6505's etc. I could have scored 6505's / 6505+'s/ 6505 jr.'s at stupid prices numerous times in the past but passed them by just 'cause they're too widely used by just about everyone & their grand-ma :laugh2:

Not a fault of the amp (though I do find them a bit 'generic' sounding..ie, .I can think of many amp's I'd much prefer just based off how they sound). Only checked the thread out because the 'two 12AX7 'all-tube preamp' that produces shitloads of gain" thing which reminded me of my Laboga :bigthumb:

Though the Laboga's obviously a smaller amp.

Having said that I am curious about what it'll (Iconic) sound like..
 
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One thing I did not note earlier. Regardless of the gain level, the 6505 wanted to feedback and made a lot more noise when muting the strings, than the Triple XXX. Two 12AX7s for preamp gain may be better solution than using more 12AX7s.
 
JamesPaul said:
A Long Tailed Pair PI uses two triodes, but a Cathodyne PI uses only one triode. The Cathodyne can suffer from a lot of issues the Long Tailed Pair corrects. Which is why most modern amps use a LTP, or some variant.

Still with James now at Fender EVH, he can leverage tech he developed at Amptweaker or concepts from the patented tech, and get plenty of gain outside of the tubes.

I did some testing today and have convinced myself the 5150 gain is not as high as I thought it was. So fingers crossed, I can let go of the only two preamp tubes.
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I don't know of any amps that use a Cathodyne PI, honestly, I'm not familiar with it.

Yes, that was another part of my point, he can do some Amptweaker magic in there too.

I used to have a XXX 60W combo (the "real" 3 channel one, not the 2 channel 50W with fx, that was a mistake) it was a great amp!
 
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Phantasmagoria said:
The thing is that laboga stresses in it's advertising that The beast has an "all-tube" preamp with just two 12Ax7's...like it's a selling point.
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Yes, it can be an all tube preamp, and you can get a lot of gain out of 2 12AX7s, the PI is technically in the power section so it still may be SS. That's what Blackstar does.

What matters is if it sounds good to you, irregardless of what is used to generate the tone.
 
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devastone said:
I don't know of any amps that use a Cathodyne PI, honestly, I'm not familiar with it.
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some tweed fenders and even some small bf fenders like the princeton reverb, some orange amps and ampegs use the cathodyne style pi. the anode and cathode are used as the two outputs, not a bad design but care needs to be taken or it can sound harsh when overdriven
 
devastone said:
Yes, it can be an all tube preamp, and you can get a lot of gain out of 2 12AX7s, the PI is technically in the power section so it still may be SS. That's what Blackstar does.

What matters is if it sounds good to you, irregardless of what is used to generate the tone.
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Doesn't matter to me at all. I have SS amp's and modeler's that I love ..so definitely not a tube purist. Though I'm pretty sure there's no SS stuff going on with the power section either. Sounded awesome to me in demo's & I was just curious to experience for myself how much gain was on tap from the two 12AX7's :bigthumb:

I also have "The Beast Classic 30" which I bought together with this one ...and it's a pretty different sounding amp despite having identical specs (according to the website the only difference is the OT. They're exactly the same otherwise.) with quite a bit less gain (and very different gain character..more like a JCM 800-meets-Orange of some sort, even more open and spongy....like vintage or even modern Sabbath) ...so curious that's all.
 
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big_EVHandhisSoldanoSLOs-1.jpg


The real 5150 amps.
 
Phantasmagoria said:
They're pretty much going the Laboga Beast route with their advertising... ie. the 2 x12AX7 "pure tube" power (implies no SS clipping) thing's going to get people's attention.. this is after all a 5150 we're talking about :D
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You can use SS to increase the signal (gain) and still get the distortion from the tubes. "SS clipping" generally is associated with using clipping diodes, like a distortion pedal. While that has been done (even some of the Jose mods), I'm guessing that isn't what is going on in these, of course, I could be wrong, haven't seen one of these.
 
devastone said:
WAT?
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Ok I misread ..apparently the preamp/tonestack design is different too,,,,but yeah something about the tranny core being different or the windings or something (1st para of the description) which supposedly makes a difference. Both amps do LOOK identical with the same controls/layout/no.of tubes etc.


Like I said, whatever they've done to make it (Beast 30 plus) as gainy as it is is impressive. But if it's all from just two 12AX7's in the pre section (which is what they imply) ..that's even more impressive. Not that it makes any diff to me at all. Just like how it sounds :bigthumb:
 
devastone said:
You can use SS to increase the signal (gain) and still get the distortion from the tubes. "SS clipping" generally is associated with using clipping diodes, like a distortion pedal. While that has been done (even some of the Jose mods), I'm guessing that isn't what is going on in these, of course, I could be wrong, haven't seen one of these.
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yeah, like with op-amps and stuff. But my guess is they're pushing the "pure tube" thing because it's.. well, "pure tube" ...so no SS boosts, op-amp's/chips/clipping diodes etc of any kind would be my guess :D

I mean people are going to be all-over this design, opening it up & pretty much probing around everything the moment it's available ..they can't afford to be discredited or have fingers pointed...that's kinda what happened with Blackstar who used to be quite the flavour of the month at one point.
 
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