Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

[Frantic_Rock]

Hey.

What is the series of chords making up the melodic minor and the harmonic minor scales?

Thanks,
Alex

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

The melodic minor scale is the same as the natural minor with the exception that the sixth and seventh are raised by a half step when the scale is ascending. When the scale is descending, the melodic minor is the same as the natural minor, e.g.:

C, D, Eb, F, G, A, B, C (ascending)
C, Bb, Ab, G, F, Eb, D, C (descending)

so are you harmonizing on the way up or way down?

The harmonic minor is the same as the natural minor, except that the seventh is raised by a half step both ascending and descending, e.g.:
C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C (ascending)
C, B, Ab, G, F, Eb, D, C (descending)

if you harmonize the harmonic minor scale in 3rds you get
C Eb G - Cminor
D F Ab - D min
Eb G B - Eb aug
F Ab C - F min
G B D - G maj
Ab C Eb - Ab maj
B D F - B dim

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

Hey thanks T4D!
I know the scale all over the neck. I prefer to look at it as a Dorian with a raised 7th.

But I was asking how do we Harmonize this scale with chords.
For example if we want to harmonize an a major scale with 7th chords we get:
Amaj7, Bmin7, Dbmin7, Dmaj7, E7m, F#min7, Abmin7b5, and again Amaj7

but what chords would we use if doing this to a melodic minor scale?

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

gotta scoot - will try to get back to this tonight and complete it in 7th ... you can just extend the llustration i've started to get there

more later
cheers and good luck
t4d

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

Oh okay. I'll just use the shape of the scale to find the chords, and also your triad formulas.

Thanks T4D

Alex

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

C harmonic minor scale

C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C

if you harmonize the harmonic minor scale in 3rds up to the 7th, you get

C Eb G B - C min maj 7
D F Ab C - D min7 b5
Eb G B D - Eb aug maj 7
F Ab C Eb - F min 7
G B D F - G 7
Ab C Eb G - Ab maj 7
B D F Ab - B dim 7

work in progress - someone please proofread me

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

...For example if we want to harmonize an a major scale with 7th chords we get:

Amaj7, Bmin7, Dbmin7, Dmaj7, E7m, F#min7, Abmin7b5, and again Amaj7

to be quite picky , the correct nomenclature would be C#min7 and G#min7b5, not Dbmin7 and Abmin7b5 ... you only use each letter once, then raise or flatten it depending on the key ... the key of A is a key with 3 sharps

but you got the chords right ... i hope i got them right for the harmonized harmonic minor scale i tried

and damn but i wish i could play these scales in a musically relevant way instead of just regurgitate learned theory

t4d

 

[JacobTM]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

C harmonic minor scale

C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C

if you harmonize the harmonic minor scale in 3rds up to the 7th, you get

C Eb G B - C min maj 7
D F Ab C - D min7 b5
Eb G B D - Eb aug maj 7
F Ab C Eb - F min 7
G B D F - G 7
Ab C Eb G - Ab maj 7
B D F Ab - B dim 7

work in progress - someone please proofread me

Just curious: I would've written the D as D 1/2dim7, is that not technically accurate? I was taught that 1/2dim7 just means 1, b3, b5, b7 in relation to the major scale.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

i've seen the "1/2 diminished" nomenclature, but was told that "1/2 diminished" kinda went out of style in favor of the more explicit/descriptive min7 b5 ... i was also tempted to use maj7 #5 for the Eb instead of "augmented maj7", but for some reason chose not to that i can't remember this morning

foamy? what to the cognescenti say about this kinda thing? do we need to call carmine?

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

I thought a scale was something you used to weigh fish.

Nevermind.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

(YO! Brandon! Where y'at, boy?)

 

[seafoamer]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

i've seen the "1/2 diminished" nomenclature, but was told that "1/2 diminished" kinda went out of style in favor of the more explicit/descriptive min7 b5 ... i was also tempted to use maj7 #5 for the Eb instead of "augmented maj7", but for some reason chose not to that i can't remember this morning

foamy? what to the cognescenti say about this kinda thing? do we need to call carmine?

I guess the fact is: you WILL see both when playing & reading charts in the real world. You just have to be aware of all the common ways to write chord symbols. Take a major chord, for example.
Anyone who has read charts for a while knows you need to be aware that a major chord could be indentified by:
Major
major
M
maj.
Ma
a triangle
or the absense of any minor, diminish, or augmented distinction.


I once had a professor who was on a world wide committee to find a universal chord symbol system. I think he said, "it went nowhere".

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

thanks, but did i harmonize that harmonic minor scale in post #6 properly?

 

[seafoamer]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

thanks, but did i harmonize that harmonic minor scale in post #6 properly?

yup!

BTW, most contemporary musicians are more concerned with the "Jazz Minor", than the "Melodic Minor" scale. The "Jazz Minor" is the same as an acsending Melodic minor, that doens't switch to natural minor on the way down. It keeps the natural 6 & 7.

The melodic minor is more of an old school ideal. It came from the fact that classical composers, (especially when writing things like fast string passages) favored a natural 6 & 7 on the way up & a flat 6 & 7 on the way down.

Contemporary musicians (who improv & interperate chord charts) favor the jazz minor scale. It is the prefered scale for the common xminor6 chord.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

so jazz minor is :

1 2 b3 4 5 6 7

e.g. C jazz minor is

C D Eb F G A B C

and harmonized is

C Eb G B - C min maj 7
D F A C - D min7
Eb G B D - Eb maj 7 #5
F A C Eb - F 7
G B D F - G 7
A C Eb G - A min 7 b5
B D F A - B min 7 b5

 

[myxolidian]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

We've had a brief discussion on the harmonic minor in this thread (along with an even more brief discussion on melodic minor) if anybody is interested: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=73342

 

[seafoamer]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

so jazz minor is :

1 2 b3 4 5 6 7

e.g. C jazz minor is

C D Eb F G A B C

and harmonized is

C Eb G B - C min maj 7
D F A C - D min7
Eb G B D - Eb maj 7 #5
F A C Eb - F 7
G B D F - G 7
A C Eb G - A min 7 b5
B D F A - B min 7 b5

yup!
& those of u immersed in Jazz improv probably know of the HUGE correlation between this scale & the notorious "Lydian b7" scale? Anyone???

 

[Robert S.]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

Nope, greek confuses me. Back in my tennybopper days I caught hold of the harmonic minor scale an wrote out the chords with their upper extensions through the 13ths and wrote a cool little piece of guitar music around them. Prior to that I understood aug chords but I wasn't sure where they were derived from.

Soloing/placing melodies over the harmonic minor modes is easy enough as the all derive from one scale but if you stray outside harmonically with chromatics and passing tones, some of the stranger intervals really get interesting.

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

Perfect! Thanks guys!

yup!
& those of u immersed in Jazz improv probably know of the HUGE correlation between this scale & the notorious "Lydian b7" scale? Anyone???

Brandon, I use the lydian b7 to solo over the dominant flat5 chord. For example, I will use A lydian b7 over the A7flat5 chord.

Other modes of the melodic minor scale are also very handy.
The handyest for me is the superlocrian over all kinds of altered dominant chords: 1, b2, b3, natural 3, b5, b6, b7 - great sounding suspenseful scale.


And another one is the mixolydian flat 6. I use that flat 6 to put some suspense on a vanilla 7th chord sometimes.


Another great one over the dominant chords is the phrygian dominant (mode of the harmonic minor) : 1, flat2, natural3, 4, 5, 6, flat7
All these add suspense nicely.


Heheeh. Know any other ones i should try?

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

Hey T4D, you mentioned that you couldn't find a practical use for these fruity scales and chords. If thats the case, I recommend getting Scott Henderson's 2 instructional videos. They're fantastic. The first one is Jazz Fusion Improvisation, the second one is Melodic Phrasing. Amazing vids for jazz. I used to be on them like a dog on a bone.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Jazz Gurus. How do you harmonize a melodic minor scale with chords?

thanks - wasnt me though .... i use the chords all the time - totally dig the extended and altered harmonic richness .... and iTRY to make the scales relevant for soloing, but under my fingers they sound like poo ... i'll try to check out those vids, sound interesting

t4d