Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

That makes the assumption that you want it balanced.

Maybe you want A crunchy, bright sharp, cutting bridge for brutal rhythm and solos, and you want a fat neck for fat mellow leads and thick dense chording. And maybe you want a middle position for a third sound that is neither and somewhere in the middle, and adjustable for flexibility with a quick volume adjust down on the bridge or neck.

The OP has a 'pretty dark' guitar and wants a set of bright and clear PU's, so in this case, a warm fat neck tone doesn't seem to be the direction he wants to go.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

The PG might be bright in some guitars, but I've never heard it described as thin. I've never heard it that way- but if that is thin, then other PAF-types would be, too, and you'd have to go with something like an Alnico II Pro or Slash.

To my ears (which are apparently faulty, as Aceman has pointed out numerous times), PGB's are brighter and thinner than I expected them to be for an A2 PU, especially as I find PGN's as on the warm side. I hear SethB's as a little warmer and fuller than PGB's, depending as I do on my limited sensory perception. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe my tastes are different. I really don't expect all members to agree on everything.

 

[gregory]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

That's like saying not all people agree that the earth is round.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

The good thing is that we get lots of different perspectives here. It wouldn't be useful if we all thought the same thing (and quite frankly, it would be boring). I dig different opinions, as it shines a mirror up to my own. Sometimes I hear things differently, and sometimes my old prejudices are challenged, and I get an opportunity to rethink my position.

 

[gregory]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

A 59 in the bridge with a polished UOA5 could be the ticket.

Why do the pickups necessarily need to be "very low" output?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

I've never put a Pearly Gates bridge model in the neck. Are you saying it will be brighter than putting the Pearly Gates neck model in the neck?

According to the data here, it doesn't seem very likely!

I agree with you, but IME would not call Duncan data from the web site 'data'. It's more like gross generalized estimated assumptions masquerading as data by making a spreadsheet out of it and plotting it on bar charts. YMMV

 

[kingrazor]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

A 59 in the bridge with a polished UOA5 could be the ticket.

Why do the pickups necessarily need to be "very low" output?

I want low output pickups so that they don't drive the preamp of my amp as hard, or the input stages of pedals as hard.

I thought the 59B sounded kind of blah compared to the PGB when comparing the recordings on the website.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

Well, the PG bridge has a bump in the treble, and the 59 is more or less even bass and treble with a scoop in the middle. It all depends on the inherent sound of the guitar you are putting them in, too. Some woods need a more even EQ. Some people don't hear high frequencies as well (me) so they over compensate for that. The PG is brighter, but I don't hear a mile-wide difference between it an a 59. Both have a vintage output and 'feel' the same when you play.

 

[gregory]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

Your amp and pedals are really sensitive with no gain controls? I find that hard to believe.

Typical reasons to want lower output are a desire for extended HF response, more relaxed midrange, ability to better blend with vintage single coils and dynamics/feel.

You say a 59 is blah, did you try it with the magnet I suggested?

Believe it or not I was initially going to recommend a Screamin' Demon based on your situation, possibly with a rough A5 or rough UOA5 since you said you want lower output and an A2 in the bridge (same reason for the polished UOA5 in the 59). This pickup will probably not drive your pedals or amp the way you think it will.

 

[gregory]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

I agree with you, but IME would not call Duncan data from the web site 'data'. It's more like gross generalized estimated assumptions masquerading as data by making a spreadsheet out of it and plotting it on bar charts. YMMV

If you can measure inductance and parasitic capacitance then resonant frequency can be calculated. Guys do it all the time, and I would like to believe the people at SD are not rank amateurs.

Their BMT graphs are another story. Check the Cool Rails Neck as an example (they say it sounds like a Jazz which is generally accepted as having scooped mids).

 

[Nagisa]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

The PG might be bright in some guitars, but I've never heard it described as thin. I've never heard it that way- but if that is thin, then other PAF-types would be, too, and you'd have to go with something like an Alnico II Pro or Slash.

Honestly it's hard to describe sounds by using adjectives meant for physical objects, but that's pretty much all we have in English. I should say my "thin" meant that the higher notes seemed to be undesirable for faster solos and chords didn't go boom so much as they carried a well defined but relatively soft sound. A lot of this is surely just the low output, which I have less experience to compare with, but I just couldn't figure out what advantage the pgb had over other pickups. It's a very different sound but to me a strat bridge beats the pgb in both cleans and crunch.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

I get how hard it is to describe sounds- in the end, words are all we have, and no 2 people hear the same exact thing. My thought is that you want something with at least an A5 magnet, and probably at least a more even treble & bass response. Most PAF-types have this sort of thing, so you get that percussive 'boom' at the beginning of the note. You might have to increase the power of the pickup slightly, too. A Whole Lotta Humbucker or a 59/Custom Hybrid are a little hotter than most PAFs, but not so hot that they lose dynamics. Either of them would add 'body' to the general tone without any of the negative effects of higher output pickups.

 

[kingrazor]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

Your amp and pedals are really sensitive with no gain controls? I find that hard to believe.

Hotter pickups drive input stages harder. It's not hard to understand...

I personally am not a fan of running my preamp at 3 just to keep the amp clean.

Typical reasons to want lower output are a desire for extended HF response, more relaxed midrange, ability to better blend with vintage single coils and dynamics/feel.

I do also play a Strat, and a smaller jump in level when switching between the two would be nice. But I also have typically preferred lower output pickups tonally, at least for cleans and light crunch. There's just more versatility with lower output pickups and there's so much amp gain available these days I don't see a need for higher output.

You say a 59 is blah, did you try it with the magnet I suggested?

I haven't tried any of the pickups mentioned in this thread, my impressions have been based on sound clips I've heard. I'm trying to find what I want before I buy anything.

Believe it or not I was initially going to recommend a Screamin' Demon based on your situation, possibly with a rough A5 or rough UOA5 since you want lower output and an A2 in the neck (same reason for the polished UOA5 in the 59). This pickup will probably not drive your pedals or amp the way you think it will.

It's more important to me that the neck pickup in particular is brighter and clearer, the bridge just needs to sound good, preferably under gain since I don't really ever play the bridge pickup clean, but I do use the middle position a lot for clean.

 

[kingrazor]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

That's how people like their bridge pickup.

Not me. I like some thickness on the bridge pickup. Most dirt pedals roll off low end, so having a good bit in there is a good thing. Don't know if my definition of "thin" is different from Nagisa's. I usually describe a "thin" tone as lacking in bass.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

If you can measure inductance and parasitic capacitance then resonant frequency can be calculated. Guys do it all the time, and I would like to believe the people at SD are not rank amateurs.

Their BMT graphs are another story. Check the Cool Rails Neck as an example (they say it sounds like a Jazz which is generally accepted as having scooped mids).

Case in point: Duncan had the output for the Black Winter bridge and neck stated as 666 mv. They aren't amateurs, but they make pickups and not 'data'

 

[kingrazor]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

Blueman says it sounds thin so therefore it is Dave.

I agree - I don't think a PG is anymore thin than say a 59. Not as fat as an A2P.

I don't see the Jazz/PG combo working because of the "character"
- One is a distinctly PAF
- One is distinctly Modern

But maybe that works for you...

I'm not really concerned about nailing a certain era. I want to develop my own sound.

 

[gregory]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

What amp and pedals are you using that have to be on 3 for anything but very low output pickups?

How is it possible that you have never actually tried a 59?

...and now this revalaion that you won't use the bridge pickup for cleans?

What other curve balls do you plan on throwing?

 

[devastone]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

I have that combo in my LTD M-1000se and it works great, I didn't expect to like it as much as I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZhlYYlC6To

 

[kingrazor]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

What amp and pedals are you using that have to be on 3 for anything but very low output pickups?

How is it possible that you have never actually tried a 59?

...and now this revalaion that you won't use the bridge pickup for cleans?

What other curve balls do you plan on throwing?

I didn't think that information was relevant when I posted the OP.

To your first question, I'm using a Fender Blues Jr for my amp. Of course, I only have to set it on 3 if I engage the fat boost option, at least with my Samick. Otherwise I can set it up to about 5 (out of 12) before I get any breakup. But the Blues Jr has very little preamp gain compared to most amps out there. This is of course with the guitar's volume on 10. I can roll back the volume on the guitar if I want to run the preamp a little hotter, but I don't like to do that all the time.

To your second question, I haven't tried any SD's except at guitar shops. Not sure I've ever seen a Duncan 59 in a guitar at the store.

I never stated in the OP that I used my bridge pickup for cleans at all. I've heard very few bridge pickups that I thought sounded good at all when played clean. Usually too honky in the mids and lacking in bass.

 

[gregory]

Re: Jazz Neck + Pearly Gates bridge?

Case in point: Duncan had the output for the Black Winter bridge and neck stated as 666 mv. They aren't amateurs, but they make pickups and not 'data'

There's a big difference between measuring voltage from a pickup and determining its resonant peak. But yeah, the level data is about as reliable as the BMT information.

I don't understand why SD wouldn't use modern test equipment when developing and manufacturing products. But hey I'm just an EE with experience in product development and manufacturing. WTF do I know?