Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

I

Ichil

New member
Hi everybody, I own an Ibanez RGT3020 (neckthrough, maple with mahogany wings) that is a very bright guitar despite the mahogany.
I changed the Paf Pros for a PAtb-3/Jazz combo and even after a lot of tweaking with the amp I have mixed feelings towards them: I like the PATB-3, but I find the Jazz good for cleans but not for high gain (expecially for alternate picking) because it lacks of bass.
What can I do? Add a resistance in the circuit to fatten up the Jazz (but not changing the tone of the PATB-3) or change it for a bassier pickup? Can Air Norton be the way to go and be a good match with the PATB-3?
Merry Xmas and happy holidays!
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

If you bought it new, Email SD to arrange an exchange for a 59n.

If it's used, offer it for trade or learn how to change the magnet to an A2, making it close to an APH neck.

I think you're looking for a 59n.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Gearjoneser said:
If you bought it new, Email SD to arrange an exchange for a 59n.

If it's used, offer it for trade or learn how to change the magnet to an A2, making it close to an APH neck.

I think you're looking for a 59n.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your answer.
I bought it used, so no exchange.
I'm not able to change the magnet: I'm afraid I will damage the pickup!
I had a 59n in a RG1550 years ago, but I didn't find it good for alternate picking under high gain: it was wonderful for warm rock tones, but a little bit muddy when gain goes to eleven. :)
Other SD pickups that I can try?
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Ichil said:
Thanks for your answer.
I bought it used, so no exchange.
I'm not able to change the magnet: I'm afraid I will damage the pickup!
I had a 59n in a RG1550 years ago, but I didn't find it good for alternate picking under high gain: it was wonderful for warm rock tones, but a little bit muddy when gain goes to eleven. :)
Other SD pickups that I can try?
Click to expand...

Work with what u have:
Set the treble side of the pickup down and bass side up until it works for you.
Also work with the tone pot.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Neck-throughs are often a bit bright, wing wood has less impact than body wood does in another neck design.

In a brighter guitar, the 59n is much less likely to be muddy.

There are some other tricks, like putting 0.5" hex (allen head) screws under the bass strings, that'll give you more tightness/articulation where it's needed. Screw swapping is very easy, and as long as you use the standard screw trick of backing it up before screwing in, and are replacing with same diameter/thread ratio screw, no chance of damage.

The Screamin' Demon is a great neck pickup option for bright guitars, particularly with 24 frets. Probably exactly what you want. Also very tweakable by swapping screws around. Want it tighter on bass strings? Replace fillisters with hex heads under the wound strings. Want it smoother on high strings? Replace hexes with fillisters.

You might also look at the PATB-1n, which has some elements of both the Jazz & '59n. Usual match for PATB-3, too. Not sure it does what you want, since you want something bassy and articulate from the sound of things.

Magnet swaps aren't as scary as they sound, it's easier than desoldering and soldering in a new pickup, at least if there's no metal cover on the pickup. It is possible to do it wrong and break the coil leads if you don't pay attention to where they are.

Air Norton would probably do what you want from the neck slot, though I don't know how it'd work for volume balance between the pickups.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Ichil said:
I'm not able to change the magnet: I'm afraid I will damage the pickup!
Click to expand...

There's a thread here now about first time mag swappers; they did it, and so can you. I just posted to a thread within the last several days, giving detailed instructions on how to swap a mag. No skill or experience required. You also have a fellow countryman on the forum, Lt Kojak, who's an experienced mag swapper. Ask him for pointers.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

I think you have the right idea with the air norton. No shrill to speak of, and massive balls. It will be very easy to sell or trade that jazz. I am a big fan of magnet swaps, but I don't think you should bother in this case, it will be easier to sell your pickup if you don't mess with it.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

+1 on Air Norton or Liquifire. Very liquid kinda of sound that works great for alternate picking and long note soloing.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

hamerfan said:
Work with what u have:
Set the treble side of the pickup down and bass side up until it works for you.
Also work with the tone pot.
Click to expand...
Been there, done that. I forgot to mention (my fault) that I already tweaked the height and the inclination of the pickup and the height of the poles. I found a compromise, but I'm still not satisfied.
If I close the tone pot the Jazz becomes instantly rounder but not enough aggressive.
However thanks for your answer.

AniML said:
Screamin Demon
Click to expand...
Never thought of that one. Hmm...


Despair said:
Neck-throughs are often a bit bright, wing wood has less impact than body wood does in another neck design.

In a brighter guitar, the 59n is much less likely to be muddy.

There are some other tricks, like putting 0.5" hex (allen head) screws under the bass strings, that'll give you more tightness/articulation where it's needed. Screw swapping is very easy, and as long as you use the standard screw trick of backing it up before screwing in, and are replacing with same diameter/thread ratio screw, no chance of damage.

The Screamin' Demon is a great neck pickup option for bright guitars, particularly with 24 frets. Probably exactly what you want. Also very tweakable by swapping screws around. Want it tighter on bass strings? Replace fillisters with hex heads under the wound strings. Want it smoother on high strings? Replace hexes with fillisters.

You might also look at the PATB-1n, which has some elements of both the Jazz & '59n. Usual match for PATB-3, too. Not sure it does what you want, since you want something bassy and articulate from the sound of things.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I need. So according to you, among the SD pickups is the Screamin' Demon the best match for my needs?

Magnet swaps aren't as scary as they sound, it's easier than desoldering and soldering in a new pickup, at least if there's no metal cover on the pickup. It is possible to do it wrong and break the coil leads if you don't pay attention to where they are.
Click to expand...
You've never seen me doing manual things: usually in the first tries I make a big mess. I don't want to risk to break the pickup: probably this engagement won't last, but it doesn't deserve death! :)

Air Norton would probably do what you want from the neck slot, though I don't know how it'd work for volume balance between the pickups.
Click to expand...
That's my concern too. Unfortunately DiMarzio and SD don't indicate the power of the pickup in the same way.

I have a SD Pickup booster laying around: tonight I'll try to use it with min boost experimenting with the resonance switch.

Everybody said:
<Precious information>
Click to expand...

Thanks to everybody for anwering to my post: knowledge is power, thanks for sharing yours!
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Ichil said:
Exactly what I need. So according to you, among the SD pickups is the Screamin' Demon the best match for my needs?
Click to expand...
Yes, though possibly with some screw polepiece shuffling.

The PATB-3 is fairly high output, so it might work opposite the Air Norton. So if you have ready access to one, it may work.

Screamin' Demon definitely will for volume balance, and is known to combine well with the PATB-3.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Ichil said:
Hi everybody, I own an Ibanez RGT3020 (neckthrough, maple with mahogany wings) that is a very bright guitar despite the mahogany.
I changed the Paf Pros for a PAtb-3/Jazz combo and even after a lot of tweaking with the amp I have mixed feelings towards them: I like the PATB-3, but I find the Jazz good for cleans but not for high gain (expecially for alternate picking) because it lacks of bass.
What can I do? Add a resistance in the circuit to fatten up the Jazz (but not changing the tone of the PATB-3) or change it for a bassier pickup? Can Air Norton be the way to go and be a good match with the PATB-3?
Merry Xmas and happy holidays!
Click to expand...

If you send me your JazzN plus € 15,00 for the magnet and the postage, I can put an UOA5 magnet in, which it'll help to balance the JazzN with the PATB-3 in the bridge.

PM if interested; I'm in Milano, and I'm always happy to help any fellow forumite in distress. ;)

HTH,
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Ok, I've done some experiments with the Pickup Booster and I've found a distorted setting of my liking with the boost to minimum (6db) and the res switch in 2nd position.
There's a "problem" with the clean sound because the attack become very "hard" and the sound a little bidimensional, but I need some more tweaking time.
Till now I've tested everything only with the emu out of my amp (Brunetti 059) and I need to make a test with my cab (1x12, Celestion Classic Lead 80 loaded).

Despair said:
Yes, though possibly with some screw polepiece shuffling.

The PATB-3 is fairly high output, so it might work opposite the Air Norton. So if you have ready access to one, it may work.

Screamin' Demon definitely will for volume balance, and is known to combine well with the PATB-3.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll try to exchange an Air Zone that I don't use anymore with one of the two.

LtKojak said:
If you send me your JazzN plus € 15,00 for the magnet and the postage, I can put an UOA5 magnet in, which it'll help to balance the JazzN with the PATB-3 in the bridge.

PM if interested; I'm in Milano, and I'm always happy to help any fellow forumite in distress. ;)

HTH,
Click to expand...
Interesting, can you do this with the PATB-3 too? How will the sound change? I know that UOA5 magnet adds mids and smoothens out highs, but how about the output?
I certainly will keep in mind this offer, thank you!
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Ichil said:
Interesting, can you do this with the PATB-3 too?
Click to expand...
Of course! ;)

Ichil said:
How will the sound change?
Click to expand...

I haven't yet actually tried it, but by experience I think it'll became less agressive and clearer sounding than stock.

Ichil said:
I know that UOA5 magnet adds mids and smoothens out highs, but how about the output?
Click to expand...

The UOA5 is not a powerful magnet, so the output will certainly be smaller, but with today's amps with all the gain on tap at your disposal, output is not a problem. But I think the outcome will be good, at the very least, tonewise.

Ichil said:
I certainly will keep in mind this offer, thank you!
Click to expand...

No prob. Just let me know.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

A8 is the most powerful alnico in common use in guitar pickups, roughly as strong as a ceramic (but sounding quite different).

A5 is next hottest, considerably less hot than A8, though.
A4 is probably next up, depending on the pickup UOA5 might appear louder (yay psychoacoustics).
Unoriented A5 is the hottest of the commonly available unoriented magnets (others being A2 & A3). It's somewhere between A2 & A5 in both sound & output. Less mids that A2, lower output than A5, less treble & low end than A5.
Second weakest is A2, quietest is A3 (but it's brighter with rolled off lower frequencies compared to A2).

I'd think UOA5 would be less clear (assuming nothing else changes like pickup height after installation) than the stock PATB-3, lower output but not by a drastic amount. Definitely more mids. Smoother treble and softer attack are common features of unoriented magnets, though of course pickup wind interacts with magnet and not always in easily predictable ways.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Just to let you know: for my RGT I choosed CrunchLab and Liquifire and the liquifire is exactly what I need in the neck spot (the crunchlab is good but a little less interesting).
I changed both pickups because i got the crunchlab as a part of an exchange of guitars and decided to give it a try: I bought the Liquifire to match it and it was the right choice.
It's very strange that even with tons of gain the Liquifire stays really clear and notes are very articulate: never tried a pickup like this.
 
Re: Jazz neck too shrill in an Ibanez RGT3020

Hm, was hoping to hear how the Air Norton balanced out opposite the PATB-3. :)

Hope you found a good home for the PATB-3!
 
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