Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

[Stix]

This is sort of a sister thread to my recent one, in which I was asking for bridge pickup recommendations for my Fender Custom Telecaster FMT HH (mahogany body, maple cap, rosewood fingerboard). Several of you guys have suggested the Screamin Demon, which I'll most probably order.

At first I was basically sure I was gonna use a Jazz in the neck position, because I have a lot of experience with that pickup and it's been my favorite for years. But then somebody suggested I should look at the Pearly Gates too. I checked out several reviews and demos, including those on the SD website, and I like what I hear. However, I'm also a bit confused, because the way people describe the two pickups doesn't always match what I hear in the demos.

Just like with my bridge pickup, I'm looking for something on the brighter side of humbucker. Even with humbuckers, I like the tone to have a lot of sparkle and almost an "acoustic" quality. I'm a subscriber to the approach "it's easier to tame brightness than to add it".

In your personal experience, which of the two meets the description above better? I know that A5 pickups are supposed to be brighter and more sparkly than A2, but that's not exactly what I hear in the sound clips. The PGn seems to have more upper mids, it also sounds less scooped. Those high mids seem to translate into clarity and punch, which I dig. The Jazz OTOH seems more "modern" sounding for a lack of a better word. From the demos though, neither seems necessarily brighter than the other.
I hate muddiness and flubby sound with passion, so whichever is less muddy will probably be my pick.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm trying to give you a lot of info, so that you can give me informed recommendations.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have on the topic!

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

For me PGN's are a warm PU with a rounded high end, too warm for my tastes. If you're looking for 'the brighter side of humbucker' with 'a lot of sparkle' you're much more likely to find it with a Jazz or '59. Pu's with A5 magnets tend to have a tighter (less 'flubby') low end than those with A2's.

 

[Stix]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Thanks, Blueman! Even a 59 is a little bit too warm for me (had one in this very guitar), so the Jazz will probably be my safest bet, which is what I thought.

Anybody else care to share their thoughts?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

The only neck HB I've had that is brighter than a Jazz is a DiMarzio HFH.

I also like bright, clear neck HB's, and use spin-a-split to achieve that (simple rewiring, takes minutes, and no parts needed).

 

[Stix]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

I'll definitely check out the spin-a-split mod, thanks! I'm not a huge fan of the sound of most HBs when coil-split, so this might be the cure for that.

Btw. how would you compare the HFH and the Jazz, seeing you have experience with both?

 

[audiocheck]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Stix,

Since you mention that you will probably go with a sceamin' demon in the bridge, I will say beware. The Demon is an awesome pickup. It has the right balance of power and dynamics, with a great upper midrange that cuts through like a knife. It is very tone sensitive to how close to the strings it gets. Too high and it will lose it's magic. I had mine paired with a Jazz neck for over a year (in a Les Paul). While I love the Jazz, I found that switching between the bridge and the neck made the Jazz sound lifeless. Believe it or not, but at this contrast the Jazz sounded muddy. What I found that works out better is to actually pair the Demon with another Demon. This allows you to place the Demon a bit further from the strings in the Neck position (in order to balance output). This of corse increases the clarity of the Pickup. The qualities I think it has over a Jazz is more cut & grind while retaining the Jazz's spank quality.

 

[Stix]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Audiocheck, now that's the kind of real-life experience I'm looking for! And what you're saying makes a lot of sense. It takes a lot to make the Jazz sound muddy! If the Demon does that, that changes everything. I should probably think twice before I order that combo. Getting two Demons sounds like a good idea in that light. Thanks for pointing that out to me!

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Brightness, clarity, sparkle, spank!

If that's what you want, why aren't you looking at P-90's? Not that I think the Demon/Demon idea isn't a great suggestion.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Brightness, clarity, sparkle, spank!

If that's what you want, why aren't you looking at P-90's?

+1. A HB-sized P-90 gives you an open sound and bright high-end that you can't get from a HB. Personally, I don't think you're going to get the 'brightness, clarity, sparkle, and spank' you want from a 10K neck PU. From your description of your tone goals, I don't think it would last in your guitar.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Maybe the Demon neck with coils wired in parallel.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Maybe the Demon neck with coils wired in parallel.

That would make a difference. But why not just get a P-90 for the neck? The high end on those is really nice.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Honestly, I'm feeling the Jazz here….

 

[Stix]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Well, in my thread where I was asking people to suggest a bright bridge humbucker, people kept suggesting P90s too, and for a good reason. That makes total sense, but I'm reluctant to go down that route, because:

- I already have a guitar with soapbar P90s (although I'd like to get nicer P90s for that one)

- I'd like this guitar to be hum-free. Being primarily a single coil player, I have three other gigging guitars, all of them with single coils. For variety, I'd like this guitar to be the fattest sounding of my instruments too, but NOT by much. So brighter humbuckers seem to be the ticket.

Re 10K neck PU - that makes me hesitate too. Heck, it even took me a while to accept that I could get a 10K pickup for the bridge position, because in my search for bright-ish humbuckers I was always looking at very low winds (sub-8.5K for the bridge and sub-8K for the neck).
But other people's suggestions and online demos convinced me that despite being a 10K pickup (hotter than I was looking for), the Demon really has excellent clarity and note separation.

But it probably makes it more difficult to find a good match for the neck position. Perhaps I should reconsider. Maybe I should get a '59 bridge and a Jazz neck and be done with it (a bandmate has that combo and it works very well). Or even the Jazz bridge might be good, although relatively few people seem to have experience with it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Looks like you already understand a little bit about the Demon...even though it's 10k, it really performs like an 8k. But if you wire it in parallel, not only will you get even more clarity, but you will be getting an actual DCR of 2.5k ohms.

Another option that no-one has mentioned is the Full Shred neck pup. It is an A5 mag pup at 7.5k. Here is a description of it right from the horse's mouth..."The Full Shred neck model is the most articulate, bright sounding neck position humbucker that we make. Great for adding clarity to any guitar". That would imply even more than the Demon or the Jazz.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

My pics for this neck pickup are certainly the Jazz or the Phat Cat, if you dig the P-90 sound. It will be cleaner & clearer than most humbuckers.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

My pics for this neck pickup are certainly the Jazz or the Phat Cat, if you dig the P-90 sound. It will be cleaner & clearer than most humbuckers.

Phat Cats don't sound like P-90's, nor apparently were they intended to. They have their own vibe.

 

[Stix]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

I do love P90s - both "real" and those that don't really sound like P90s. But in this guitar I'm determined to stick to HBs.

Now the Full Shred is an interesting idea! If it's really capable of great bright cleans, it's another one of those funny SD misnomers! I'd never consider something like that based on the name, but it might be what I need!

 

[roscoe13]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Phat Cats don't sound like P-90's, nor apparently were they intended to. They have their own vibe.

First sentence of the Phat Cat description: "A set of Phat Cats offers true P-90 growl and bite in any humbucker equipped guitar without modifications." (emphasis mine)

Sure sounds like they're marketing them as if they're supposed to sound like P-90s.....

Roscoe

 

[blueman335]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

First sentence of the Phat Cat description: "A set of Phat Cats offers true P-90 growl and bite in any humbucker equipped guitar without modifications." (emphasis mine)

Sure sounds like they're marketing them as if they're supposed to sound like P-90s.....

Members here, Phat Cat fans, have said Phat Cats weren't originally designed to sound like P-90's. That quote may be a recent addition. They were one of the first HB-sized single coils years ago, and are different from the others (no base plate screws to hold the PU together, no 3rd wire for ground, A2 magnets).

 

[Stix]

Re: Jazz vs Pearly Gates in neck positron

Guys, there are two points I'd like to make:

1) If I have any say in this (as the OP), this thread is supposed to be about humbuckers

2) Defining what a "true P90" sounds like might prove just as difficult as defining a "true humbucker" etc, you catch my drift. I for one love the variety that all those pickup types give me. Perhaps there is a time and place for a discussion about "true PAFs", "true P90s" etc. I'm just not sure this thread is it...