jazz?

[shred me good]

having been thrust into some jazz theory in the scales question thread i am no dead set on this mad thing we call jazz.
its not my first encounter with this genre and this wont be my first atempt at understanding it.
upon first hearing jazz i got the following things

1 the drummer seems to hit the snare drum when he feels like it, he dose fills when he wants, and the drummers seem to be fairly good on the whole. ok cool for the drummer he just listens and drums!wey drummers dream.

2 this is where it lost me...
in some of the jazz songs ive heard (especialy improvised ones with silly names like "the armchair's dance") the rhythem (say a rhythem guitar) play chords that vaugly corespond with the last chord they played but semingly not with all of the chords before that, giving the sound of pure randomisation!

3 the lead (say piano or guitar) and bass have to listen out for these chords and play equaly random little fluters around them?

and somehow this makes music!!!
please enlighten me! (and anyone els who is interested)
cheub

 

[flank]

Re: jazz?

well the bass in jazz is often just a wandering and "walking" bassline type of thing...... and you should look for jazz chords..... there are MANY variations and complex chords in jazz, this is probably what your hearing from the rhythm guitar...... and yeah, the drummers are snare-heavy in jazz.......

everything seems kind of loose and "wandering about"

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: jazz?

That is because it is the mastery of improvisation, unlike you "shredders" who are of the more strict Classical way of seeing things.
Jazz is not just jazz, it covers a very wide and big ground, as with everything else dig the roots to understand the present!

 

[shred me good]

Re: jazz?

i hope that is not a dig at those who conditon theselves in the way of tecknical mastery! (oh it was :smack: !)
just beceause my name has shred in it dosent mean i dont want to understand and "feel" all of the types of music the world has to offer. even pop music has certain qualeties that can be utelisised to improve the music we create, it wouldent be poular for nothing (and jimi hendrix (peace be upon him) was once thought of as pop)

i feel that learning jazz (as it is the musical improvisatory mecka) will help greatly in creating an original style of music, and that is after all my aim as a guitarest.
so i apologise to rid for having "shred" in my name

 

[shred me good]

Re: jazz?

anyhoooooooo
more info on jaaazz. what ive learned sofar has only made my want more!
so any jazz heads out there please helpy

 

[flank]

Re: jazz?

great jazz guitarists....... Joe Pass, Django Rheindart, Wes Montgomery,...... just learn about those guys, maybe some of their songs

and nobody burn me about other great jazz guys, its just these are the "big 3" to me.....and i think he could find the most info about these guys first

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: jazz?

Eh Shred???
Well did not mean it as a swipe at your handle or musical taste!
But shred is a very formalised style, all the music basics are the same as in jazz or any kind of music.
Jazz is mostly a free running thing, I am no expert nor a big fan of most of it, I like some of it.
Hornplayers had more impact than the guitarwiddlers, so dig out some Coltrane, Miles, Dizzie Gillespie, and so on.

 

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: jazz?

jazz is all abaout improvising.

and improvisng over the complex rhythms in diffenren time sigs and key sigs. in jazz you could have a chord progression and have not any of the chords be in teh same key. whihc is why you need to learn alot of aspects of theory to get ti right. it's not easy

 

[shred me good]

Re: jazz?

i seeeeeeeeeeeee.
and i gues the only way i can get this theory is by getting a teacher!
damn.
ok thanks for the help

 

[JammerMatt]

Re: jazz?

1 the drummer seems to hit the snare drum when he feels like it, he dose fills when he wants, and the drummers seem to be fairly good on the whole. ok cool for the drummer he just listens and drums!wey drummers dream.

Ha, that was my first impression, too!

Joke:

Q: What do you call one wrong note?
A: A mistake

Q: What do you call two wrong notes?
A: Jazz

P.S. I like jazz, those guys seem to know the most about theory.

 

[Young Angus]

Re: jazz?

Ha, that was my first impression, too!

Joke:

Q: What do you call one wrong note?
A: A mistake

Q: What do you call two wrong notes?
A: Jazz

P.S. I like jazz, those guys seem to know the most about theory.

hahaha i hope i can remember that joke

 

[shred me good]

Re: jazz?

i dont get it

 

[Quencho092]

Re: jazz?

how do you play a walking bass line?

 

[Xeromus]

Re: jazz?

Jazz is very open to interpretation and improvisation. It is assumed if you have a jazz standard in front of you that you aren't going to play it note for note or just hammer out the chords written as is in the music. That's one of the uniquities of jazz and what makes it so interesting.

 

[Marinblues]

Re: jazz?

Here, check these out:

Jazz Primer for Rock People

A Jazz Improvisation Primer


Marin

 

[MDS]

Re: jazz?

Hey Shred...

I'm a jazzer, so I'll chime in a bit. Learning to really play jazz is a serious undertaking, but whatever exposure you have to it will undoubtedly improve your playing. With the exception of 20th+ classical music, Jazz has the most complex harmony and it is often moving by very quickly. The challange is to improvise over these harmonies in something that sounds remotely like music. Learning to play jazz can take a long time, but once you've learned to navigate your instrument, learned the basic chords, and get some tunes under your belt it is a lot of fun. I think what non-jazzers don't often recognize is the interplay going on between the various members of the band both harmonically and rhythmically. The aspect of group interaction is what makes it such a gratifying music to play.

The number one thing you can do to understand jazz is to listen to a lot of it. Get a couple of records. Miles Davis Kind of Blue is the traditional first record. Get Blue Train by Coltrane, too. Since you play guitar you'll probably enjoy some early Benson or Wes. Listen to this stuff a lot. Try to count a long with it. Look for recordings with simple tunes on it, like Autumn Leaves (Cannonball Aderely Something Else is a good example). Get a chart for Autum Leaves from a real book and watch the changes go by as you listen and try to make it through the track without loosing your place. This type of ear training is really important.

There are a lot of resources for getting the chords and scales together on guitar. You'll need to own your major scale forms and blues licks. There are other scales to learn, but don't worry about them at first. Get some arpeggios happening and try to arpeggiate through some tunes. Learn some licks. Pick them off of records and buy a couple of good lick books. Corey Christainsen has been putting out some really useful lick books lately.

Jazz is hard, but anyone can learn it if they put some energy into it. Find a buddy who wants to do it too, you'll both learn 100x faster. A teacher is probably a really good idea.

Good luck!

Mike

 

[Quencho092]

Re: jazz?

where can one get a real book or a fake book, and what is in it? What do these charts look like? How do I develop better chord comping skills using different rhythms?

I really want to learn but I've gone through a few months asking around and I don't know where to begin.

 

[benjaturner]

Re: jazz?

Hello Quencho,
I think you're trying to run before you can walk. Why don't you really work on your music theory first? You can buy a good theory book from almost any good book store. I learnt most of my theory from the AB books. They're not specifically jazz orintated, but a fully comprehensive theory background will set you up excellently for learning Jazz. How much work have you put into theory so far?

 

[shred me good]

Re: jazz?

thanks alot mike, thats darned fine advice!!
once iv learned the jazz, then ill be sorted!

 

[MDS]

Re: jazz?

where can one get a real book or a fake book, and what is in it? What do these charts look like? How do I develop better chord comping skills using different rhythms?

I really want to learn but I've gone through a few months asking around and I don't know where to begin.

Chuck Sher publishes REALLY good fakebooks. Start with The New Real Book Volume1. This book is licensed, legal, and accurate.

The "old" book is harder to come by since it violates copyright. Ask some jazz guys in your city where you can get one. Ebay might be a good source. Hal Leonard has published a book with the same cover, but it has different tunes, changes etc. It is probably a good book, but it isn't the classic book many guys have used (that is good and bad).

Jamey Abersold play alongs usually come with good charts for tunes and the play alongs can give you a place to try out your licks and get used to the feeling of a swinging rhythm section. Some of the CD volumes have questionable performances from the band (they rush, they're out of tune, etc.), but most of the later ones are pretty good.

Mike