JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

[sterwill]

Last week I bought a beautiful Jackson SL1T (hard-tail), which comes with a TB-4 in the bridge (and some staggered pole single-coil size humbuckers for mid and neck). The guitar plays so great I couldn't pass it up, but I want a pickup with a little more bite in the bridge. The JB-model pickup has a great, sweet sound to it, but I want something a little more crunchy for rhythm.

Here's a little more backstory to the sound I'm looking for. I was previously playing an old Charvel Charvette with a Live Wire Heavy Metal bridge pickup. I've had this PU for a few years, and it's brutally hot, but sounds great through my amps (JCM 2000 DSL or JMP-1, depending on mood). I won't consider routing out a huge hole in my SL1T for the batteries, so I'm looking for a passive upgrade for the TB-4.

Instead of writing four paragraphs explaining what kind of music I play and what kind of tone I'm looking for, I recorded some short samples. The replacement pickup should land me about half-way between the two tones.

Each guitar was recorded into a Marshall JMP-1. The cab simulation line outputs were run directly into my sound card. The amp settings were identical for the two guitars, and both guitars were played at full volume. The samples are only some improvised rhythm work, but they're pretty good at illustrating the difference in tones.

First, the Jackson SL1T with TB-4: 768KB MP3

Second, the Charvette LW-HMET: 820K MP3

Again, the Live Wire pickup is pretty damn hot. I'd like a replacement with similar tonal characteristics (lots of harmonics, good mid punch, tight distortion). At first I though the Duncan Distortion was that pickup (the LW-HMET description says it's an active version of the Distortion). Then I heard the Invader sound samples, and it's a lower, fatter tone.

Any suggestions?

 

[madguitar26]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

i tried replacing my jb on my strat with an anderson h3+ and it was like night and day.
VERY DARK.similar sounding to a DUNCAN DISTORTION as someone here put once.
for a light bodied and not bassy guitar ,definetly id say the distortion.
the sound samples help alot too

 

[Peterku]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

I'd say Bare Knuckle 'Miracle Man' for a tight and articulated sound with lots of harmonics (a little bit similar to the Duncan Dist), or 'Nailbomb' for a rude JB-like sound with huge organic mids, or 'Warpig' for a brutally heavy sound (like the Invader, but more focused in the low-end).

 

[theodie]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

The distortion is a fine pickup and should do you well. If you can find a ceramic magnet you can pretty much turn your JB into a distortion. They are more or less the same pickup with a different magnet. Magnet swaps are fairly easy also.

 

[Guitarist]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

Just a sidenote: You don't have the TB-4, you have the SH-4... the TB-4 is a tremspaced JB.

Just incase you try to sell, now you won't hand out the wrong information.

 

[madguitar26]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

i thoght they sounded pretty similar...the jb and distortion that is.actually so do the custom and custom custom.

 

[theodie]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

The custom, custom custom, and the custom 5 use the same coils with different magnets. The Distortion, JB, and Invader do also. The Invader of course uses the huge poles and also 3 ceramic magnets instead of the single ceramic magnet that the Distortion uses.

 

[madguitar26]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

after all this usefull info id say get a anderson h3+ from http://www.gtrheaven.com/pickups/pickups.asp?ven=27&ar=0&t=Tom+Anderson+Pickups.
the exact oposite to the jb,but warning clean sucks.

 

[theodie]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

A magnet swap will be alot cheaper. Plus, he wouldnt have to worry about selling one pickup and aquiring another.

 

[SwedeNuck]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

Actually he may still have a TB-4 in there, just because it's hardtail doesn't mean that it's a narrow string spaced guitar.

 

[sterwill]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

I'm pretty sure it's a TB-4. That's what the Jackson literature says, and short of pulling out a ruler (or looking at the bottom of the pickup), I'm not sure I could tell for sure. The SL1 is a Floyd Rose version of the same guitar, and Jackson offers the same pickups in both.

Thanks for the pickup recommendations, everyone. I'll look at the Anderson pickups. It's OK if the clean isn't very usable; I have middle and neck pickups for that. The Live Wire Heavy Metal is also completely useless clean (it overdrives every clean channel I've played it through). Sounds like the Distortion may also fill the gap between the JB and the Live Wire.

The SL1T is a neck-through (maple) guitar with an ebony fretboard, and I wouldn't call it real "bassy," but it's got good sustain in the low and middle end (more than my USA maple-necked Strat). The high end is bright and shiny.

 

[frankencat]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

It's a TB-4. I have had a few Jacksons and I have had success replacing the JB with a Custom in those.

 

[CaughtLikeFire]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

how about the parallel axis distortion trembucker? it should really thicken up an alder/maple guitar

 

[ex-250]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

I'm pretty sure it's a TB-4. That's what the Jackson literature says, and short of pulling out a ruler (or looking at the bottom of the pickup), I'm not sure I could tell for sure. The SL1 is a Floyd Rose version of the same guitar, and Jackson offers the same pickups in both.

Thanks for the pickup recommendations, everyone. I'll look at the Anderson pickups. It's OK if the clean isn't very usable; I have middle and neck pickups for that. The Live Wire Heavy Metal is also completely useless clean (it overdrives every clean channel I've played it through). Sounds like the Distortion may also fill the gap between the JB and the Live Wire.

The SL1T is a neck-through (maple) guitar with an ebony fretboard, and I wouldn't call it real "bassy," but it's got good sustain in the low and middle end (more than my USA maple-necked Strat). The high end is bright and shiny.

if you wanna look into anderson, i definately reccomend the H3. the other dude seems to like the H3+, which as far as the site says is hotter and was more bottom response than the H3, but....damn! the H3 has a nice low end as it is. anymore might be a bit much. then again i have it in a heavy mahogany guitar. in a lighter guitar, the H3+ would probably be better

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

The custom, custom custom, and the custom 5 use the same coils with different magnets. The Distortion, JB, and Invader do also. The Invader of course uses the huge poles and also 3 ceramic magnets instead of the single ceramic magnet that the Distortion uses.

I don't think you can say the JB, Distortion and Invader all use the same coils. They are in the same ballpark DC resistance-wise (16.4k, 16.6 and 16.8) but the tones are extremely different. There is more to a coil's sound than just the number of turns -- the pattern of the wind makes a huge difference. There are two basic kinds of winds, the neat row on row wind (which modern winding machines usually do) or "scatter" winding.

There are big variations within each of these two types of winds, especially scatter winding, so to a certain extent, pickup-winding is just this side of black magic, and none of the manufacturers are letting anyone in on their secrets.

There is also the height of the bobbins -- I haven't done an exact measurement with a bunch of different samples but I suspect (again, at this point this is just pure speculation) that the secret of how the Seth Lover neck model can be such an underwound 'bucker and have all that warmth is that the bobbins used for it are shorter. I compared it with a 59 bobbin I had laying around and the 59 bobbin is about 1/32" taller. That doesn't sound like much, but when you're dealing with thousands of turns of wire, you end up with a wider coil shape because there's less vertical space to put all that wire. A wider coil shape samples a larger portion of the string and thus picks up more bass frequencies. This is my theory on how the Seth Lover neck can have such a high resonant peak (8.14k) and still sound so warm -- low DC resistance = more clarity; wider coils = more bass.

Anyway, bottom line, putting an Alnico 5 in an Invader would never make it sound like a JB, even if you used smaller polepieces (which I have done), and putting ceramics in a JB would only make it sound thinner and brighter -- it would NEVER rumble and roar like and Invader. The coils have a similar DC resistance, but that's where the similarities end.

 

[YJM_Rocks]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

I say go with a custom

 

[madguitar26]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

ex-250.
thats the dude i remember writing about the anderson being bass heavy and comparing it to the distortion.
i was just about to get a breed for my cort,but just by remembering the anderson...REGRET

 

[Nite_Maresz_25]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

distortion or custom will work well for you.
-alex.

 

[theodie]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

I don't think you can say the JB, Distortion and Invader all use the same coils. They are in the same ballpark DC resistance-wise (16.4k, 16.6 and 16.8) but the tones are extremely different. There is more to a coil's sound than just the number of turns -- the pattern of the wind makes a huge difference. There are two basic kinds of winds, the neat row on row wind (which modern winding machines usually do) or "scatter" winding.

There are big variations within each of these two types of winds, especially scatter winding, so to a certain extent, pickup-winding is just this side of black magic, and none of the manufacturers are letting anyone in on their secrets.

There is also the height of the bobbins -- I haven't done an exact measurement with a bunch of different samples but I suspect (again, at this point this is just pure speculation) that the secret of how the Seth Lover neck model can be such an underwound 'bucker and have all that warmth is that the bobbins used for it are shorter. I compared it with a 59 bobbin I had laying around and the 59 bobbin is about 1/32" taller. That doesn't sound like much, but when you're dealing with thousands of turns of wire, you end up with a wider coil shape because there's less vertical space to put all that wire. A wider coil shape samples a larger portion of the string and thus picks up more bass frequencies. This is my theory on how the Seth Lover neck can have such a high resonant peak (8.14k) and still sound so warm -- low DC resistance = more clarity; wider coils = more bass.

Anyway, bottom line, putting an Alnico 5 in an Invader would never make it sound like a JB, even if you used smaller polepieces (which I have done), and putting ceramics in a JB would only make it sound thinner and brighter -- it would NEVER rumble and roar like and Invader. The coils have a similar DC resistance, but that's where the similarities end.

Doubtful at best!!!

Its the popular rumor around here and somehow there is some truth behind it, I will have to find it though. I have seen it before.
Word around here is that the JB, distortion, and invader are all in the same family. Plus, look at the Duncan pickups that are without a doubt different than the rest of the pack, the Seths, Pearly gates, Scremin Demon, dimebucker, and there is probally another one or so that I am missing. What do they all have in common? Price!!!! The are all there own one off design and thats probally why they command a higher price. As fas as the different DC reading of the DD, JB, invader, thats mainly just jive. I have seen 17.5 JB's when they are supposed to be like 16.4 and I have seen pickups that read alot lower than listed such as a 13.5 custom when it is supposed to read 14.1. Look at the neck pickups, they are all around 7.5K. Do you think each one of them is their own unigue design as far as wind goes? There is no less than 7 different models that have pretty much the same DC resistance as the other.

BTW, you mentioned putting an A5 in an Invader with smaller poles. Did you put slugs in it also and did you take out the other 2 ceramic magnets out and use standard spacers?

 

[madguitar26]

Re: JB Replacement: Distortion/Invader/?

just finished downloading all the duncan humbucker samples.
with Sennheiser HD565 audiophile headphones they all have diferent caracteristics,some very similar sounding,almost IDENTICAL.
i do think it depends on your setup for my jb im my strat sounds like the distortion sound sample when i put the bass knob of the classic 50 to ten,and decrease the treble.