"JBJ" JB
- Thread starter LLL
- Start date
Lewguitar
New member
Re: "JBJ" JB
If true, that’s a dramatic difference. Would be to me anyway. I’ve opened up some early 80’s 59 Model humbuckers and they did have magnets that were rougher than today’s Polished magnets. Not rough enough to call them Roughcast, but they were rougher.
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: "JBJ" JB
I just found this out earlier this month, but the difference between polished and roughcast is more than just the smoothness of the surface. I use to think that polished magnets were just roughcast magnets smoothed down to fit a standardized dimension. But roughcast magnets are cast into a sand mold, giving them the rough appearance, then they can be cut into a uniform shape making them "unpolished". But there is a completely different process for making modern magnets that results in a slightly different internal structure.
I forget exactly what happened in that process, so Cermag feel free to add or correct me.
I just found this out earlier this month, but the difference between polished and roughcast is more than just the smoothness of the surface. I use to think that polished magnets were just roughcast magnets smoothed down to fit a standardized dimension. But roughcast magnets are cast into a sand mold, giving them the rough appearance, then they can be cut into a uniform shape making them "unpolished". But there is a completely different process for making modern magnets that results in a slightly different internal structure.
I forget exactly what happened in that process, so Cermag feel free to add or correct me.
Masta' C
Well-known member
Re: "JBJ" JB
There's about a 98% chance that if the baseplate is new enough to have a stamped logo, then the pickup will have a polished mag inside.
Only the earliest JB's (including "JBJ"s), typically those with blank baseplates from around '82 and earlier, reliably featured roughcast magnets.
A few exceptions exist in the transition, but most logo-stamped era pickups are the polished type, despite internet rumors.
There's about a 98% chance that if the baseplate is new enough to have a stamped logo, then the pickup will have a polished mag inside.
Only the earliest JB's (including "JBJ"s), typically those with blank baseplates from around '82 and earlier, reliably featured roughcast magnets.
A few exceptions exist in the transition, but most logo-stamped era pickups are the polished type, despite internet rumors.
eclecticsynergy
Well-known member
Re: "JBJ" JB
Early 59s had a darker colored A5 magnet; I believe they were unpolished but not roughcast. It's often said that these likely were US made but I have no actual proof of that.
I have a number of those older sweet/not harsh 59s and they do seem to sound a bit different from the modern ones with smooth mags.
Haven't compared them side by side to a newer 59 with a rough A5 swapped in. But many here feel that the rough A5 helps mitigate the highs some, bringing new ones more in line with the way those old ones sound & feel. As always, YMMV.
Early 59s had a darker colored A5 magnet; I believe they were unpolished but not roughcast. It's often said that these likely were US made but I have no actual proof of that.
I have a number of those older sweet/not harsh 59s and they do seem to sound a bit different from the modern ones with smooth mags.
Haven't compared them side by side to a newer 59 with a rough A5 swapped in. But many here feel that the rough A5 helps mitigate the highs some, bringing new ones more in line with the way those old ones sound & feel. As always, YMMV.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: "JBJ" JB
My understanding is the earliest JBs also had butyrate bobbins.
Also I read on here that the change to polished mags was for ease of assembly reasons - since the mag was smooth, the bobbins would sit flat.
IMHO the most valuable MJ pickups made are the ones made today - because now she has decades of knowledge and experience to apply to creating every pickup.
My understanding is the earliest JBs also had butyrate bobbins.
Also I read on here that the change to polished mags was for ease of assembly reasons - since the mag was smooth, the bobbins would sit flat.
IMHO the most valuable MJ pickups made are the ones made today - because now she has decades of knowledge and experience to apply to creating every pickup.
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: "JBJ" JB
I think this is an excellent assessment. MJ has become a legend, and rightfully so. Her work is impeccable and her knowledge vast. I'm sure there was a period when she was "the new girl" at SD and her winding skills hadn't developed to the level they are today. There are likely some early pickups she wound that are complete duds honestly. She wasn't a fully formed pickup Guru on day one. There are also undoubtedly some older pickups out there that do sound different and arguably better than production models today. Whether that is from changes in bobbin material or rough vs. polished vs. darker colored magnets or from other minor material changes is debatable, including who it was wound by. Age and environment do play a factor in a pickups sound..... if they didn't the Antiquities wouldn't exist.... right?
I have a couple of old JB's. One is a black "JBJ" and the other is a double cream "JBD" or "JBL" for Lydia Daniels....I can't remember which initial they used for her name. Which one sounds better? I can't tell a difference honestly. The black one is more beat up, but the double cream looks nicer, so that is in an HH strat and the black one is in my pickup stash for a future project.
The absolute best sounding JB pickup I've heard is the 35th An JB. Darth Phineas has clips of all 3 on his site, and the 35th sounds fantastic.
I saw an APH on Reverb the other day, it's a double cream from the old days. It has a APHJ sticker on it and the seller is asking $200 for it because its wound by MJ. If they're really worth that much more than other older pickups then I guess I should post my old JBJ for sale and ask $400 for it. Then I'll take that money and have MJ wind me a sweet custom set of something. I'd rather have a custom shop set honestly.
I think this is an excellent assessment. MJ has become a legend, and rightfully so. Her work is impeccable and her knowledge vast. I'm sure there was a period when she was "the new girl" at SD and her winding skills hadn't developed to the level they are today. There are likely some early pickups she wound that are complete duds honestly. She wasn't a fully formed pickup Guru on day one. There are also undoubtedly some older pickups out there that do sound different and arguably better than production models today. Whether that is from changes in bobbin material or rough vs. polished vs. darker colored magnets or from other minor material changes is debatable, including who it was wound by. Age and environment do play a factor in a pickups sound..... if they didn't the Antiquities wouldn't exist.... right?
I have a couple of old JB's. One is a black "JBJ" and the other is a double cream "JBD" or "JBL" for Lydia Daniels....I can't remember which initial they used for her name. Which one sounds better? I can't tell a difference honestly. The black one is more beat up, but the double cream looks nicer, so that is in an HH strat and the black one is in my pickup stash for a future project.
The absolute best sounding JB pickup I've heard is the 35th An JB. Darth Phineas has clips of all 3 on his site, and the 35th sounds fantastic.
I saw an APH on Reverb the other day, it's a double cream from the old days. It has a APHJ sticker on it and the seller is asking $200 for it because its wound by MJ. If they're really worth that much more than other older pickups then I guess I should post my old JBJ for sale and ask $400 for it. Then I'll take that money and have MJ wind me a sweet custom set of something. I'd rather have a custom shop set honestly.
Last edited:
Re: "JBJ" JB
Polished magnets are all produced from rough casts, polished magnets are done to control dimensional and magentic final properties. In the magnet industry we dont normally refer to polished alnico as 'polished' as its given that 95% of all alnico made goes out the door in this state, only in a select few industries is rough cast preferable (guitar pickups being one of them...sometimes). The rough cast surface does affect the final magnetic properties slightly compared to polished.
You are right that the modern way of casting magnets is different to that of 50 years or so ago, these changes have created a more consistent grain structure within the cast magnet. Ceramic is different as it is pressed.
Polished magnets are all produced from rough casts, polished magnets are done to control dimensional and magentic final properties. In the magnet industry we dont normally refer to polished alnico as 'polished' as its given that 95% of all alnico made goes out the door in this state, only in a select few industries is rough cast preferable (guitar pickups being one of them...sometimes). The rough cast surface does affect the final magnetic properties slightly compared to polished.
You are right that the modern way of casting magnets is different to that of 50 years or so ago, these changes have created a more consistent grain structure within the cast magnet. Ceramic is different as it is pressed.
LLL
New member
Re: "JBJ" JB
'Jon Bon Jovi'... "JBJ". It all makes sense!
I'll be 50 in 1.5 years and my hair is bigger (and longer) now than it ever was.
'Jon Bon Jovi'... "JBJ". It all makes sense!
I'll be 50 in 1.5 years and my hair is bigger (and longer) now than it ever was.
LLL
New member
Re: "JBJ" JB
Probably. I recall Sambora had a sig Kramer with stars on the fretboard.
Exactly as it should be!
I hope that when I hit my 50's that I can still have kick ass hair.
Edit - didn't Bon Jovi (Jon and Richie) exclusively use Kramer guitars in the early 80's..?
Probably. I recall Sambora had a sig Kramer with stars on the fretboard.
CaptainWhizz
New member
Re: "JBJ" JB
Call to the custom shop- "I basically want a JB, with a little more hair."
Sorry, I'll get my coat.
Call to the custom shop- "I basically want a JB, with a little more hair."
Sorry, I'll get my coat.
STLMTLHD79
New member
Re: "JBJ" JB
I have a JBJ and a JBL from the 83-88 era that both have Rough cast mags and both are original.
I have a JBJ and a JBL from the 83-88 era that both have Rough cast mags and both are original.
Masta' C
Well-known member
Re: "JBJ" JB
They're most certainly out there. My point is that those tend to be the exception, not the hard-and-fast rule players are lead to believe by all the "JBJ" mysticism.
The '82-'86 period is really a gamble. After that, you can expect polished pretty much 100% of the time. Exceptions usually indicate the mag was swapped by the end user after purchase, which happens more than most realize.
Just so you know I'm not talking out of my sexy backside, I still have a small stock of NOS "JBJ" pickups from the very early to mid-80s, most of which I unsealed myself. You may have even have seen me sell a few in the trading post and on eBay/Reverb. I've also sold more than a dozen used "JBJ" models and a good chunk of the really rare "The JB Model" versions that have come up for sale in the past 2 years or so, including one ultra-rare first-year model, were mine, as well.
All I'm saying is that I have a lot of first-hand experience with these early generations. Roughcast definitely gets more rare the further you move away from the very first-gen ('77-'82) and disappears completely sometime in the mid-'80s.
Any chance you have a pic of the baseplate on your JBJ and JBL models? Do either of them have "Seymour Duncan" written on the bobbins?
I ask because there were multiple logo changes between '83 and '88, which helps narrow down specific year ranges. I'm always interested in learning more.
P.S. - My favorite JB of all time was actually a "JBL", not a "JBJ"! Shhhh...don't tell MJ
They're most certainly out there. My point is that those tend to be the exception, not the hard-and-fast rule players are lead to believe by all the "JBJ" mysticism.
The '82-'86 period is really a gamble. After that, you can expect polished pretty much 100% of the time. Exceptions usually indicate the mag was swapped by the end user after purchase, which happens more than most realize.
Just so you know I'm not talking out of my sexy backside, I still have a small stock of NOS "JBJ" pickups from the very early to mid-80s, most of which I unsealed myself. You may have even have seen me sell a few in the trading post and on eBay/Reverb. I've also sold more than a dozen used "JBJ" models and a good chunk of the really rare "The JB Model" versions that have come up for sale in the past 2 years or so, including one ultra-rare first-year model, were mine, as well.
All I'm saying is that I have a lot of first-hand experience with these early generations. Roughcast definitely gets more rare the further you move away from the very first-gen ('77-'82) and disappears completely sometime in the mid-'80s.
Any chance you have a pic of the baseplate on your JBJ and JBL models? Do either of them have "Seymour Duncan" written on the bobbins?
I ask because there were multiple logo changes between '83 and '88, which helps narrow down specific year ranges. I'm always interested in learning more.
P.S. - My favorite JB of all time was actually a "JBL", not a "JBJ"! Shhhh...don't tell MJ
Last edited:
