Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Oh come on. Everybody steals from other musicians. It's impossible not to. It's called 'building on what's been done before you.' No one lives in a vacuum. You can't play guitar and not do what thousands have already done before; your personal 'style' is just a combination of pieces of things others have done or given you the idea to do. Put together a fresh mix of pieces, maybe change the tones a bit, and you're a genius, an 'innovator.'
If you're 'creative', it just means you've copied from more guys than the average guitarist does, and it's too hard for listeners to track down where you got them all from.
Oh come on. Everybody steals from other musicians. It's impossible not to. It's called 'building on what's been done before you.' No one lives in a vacuum. You can't play guitar and not do what thousands have already done before; your personal 'style' is just a combination of pieces of things others have done or given you the idea to do. Put together a fresh mix of pieces, maybe change the tones a bit, and you're a genius, an 'innovator.'
If you're 'creative', it just means you've copied from more guys than the average guitarist does, and it's too hard for listeners to track down where you got them all from.
Gypsyblue
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Way more than that with Page. You must not have watched the video I posted.
I thought you were a bluesman!?! Listen to I Can't Quit You Baby by Otis Rush and then by Led Zeppelin. It's the same song and no writing credit given to Willie Dixon or Otis Rush.
Eric Clapton would never have done that. Nor Keith Richards. Instead, they hired their heroes to open for them and encouraged their audience to buy records from the original artists and support them. Not Led Zeppelin tho. They wanted the money for themselves.
Babe I'm Gonna Leave You was an out an out rip from Joan Baez. Same lyrics and melody.
Black Mountainside is the same song as Burt Jansch's Black Waterside. They even have similar titles. But no credit given to Burt.
Watch all 10 minutes of the video - it'll poke a big hole in your balloon.
Nope - Les Zeppelin stole tons of songs without crediting the original authors.
Google "Led Zeppelin Stolen Songs" or "Led Zeppelin Stolen Music".
Page and Plant were/are thieves and their manager Peter Grant behaved like a thug. Read Bill Graham's comments about Led Zep in his book: My Life Inside Rock N Roll. It'll make you sick.
http://www.amazon.com/Bill-Graham-Presents-Life-Inside/dp/0306813491
Way more than that with Page. You must not have watched the video I posted.
I thought you were a bluesman!?! Listen to I Can't Quit You Baby by Otis Rush and then by Led Zeppelin. It's the same song and no writing credit given to Willie Dixon or Otis Rush.
Eric Clapton would never have done that. Nor Keith Richards. Instead, they hired their heroes to open for them and encouraged their audience to buy records from the original artists and support them. Not Led Zeppelin tho. They wanted the money for themselves.
Babe I'm Gonna Leave You was an out an out rip from Joan Baez. Same lyrics and melody.
Black Mountainside is the same song as Burt Jansch's Black Waterside. They even have similar titles. But no credit given to Burt.
Watch all 10 minutes of the video - it'll poke a big hole in your balloon.
Nope - Les Zeppelin stole tons of songs without crediting the original authors.
Google "Led Zeppelin Stolen Songs" or "Led Zeppelin Stolen Music".
Page and Plant were/are thieves and their manager Peter Grant behaved like a thug. Read Bill Graham's comments about Led Zep in his book: My Life Inside Rock N Roll. It'll make you sick.
http://www.amazon.com/Bill-Graham-Presents-Life-Inside/dp/0306813491
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lNllClK
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Ah who cares. They brought new life to those songs. I enjoy them stolen or not, more so the led zeppelin versions. And chances are no one would even know half of the stuff they copied if it weren't for them copying it... The blues comes from a great tradition of borrowing, stealing, copying, whatever you wanna call it. Robert Johnson copied(borrowed, stoled, copped) his fair share. Are plant and page arrogant rock stars? definitely, but they made good tunes better on their first couple albums, and then made their own fair share of good tunes after that...
Ah who cares. They brought new life to those songs. I enjoy them stolen or not, more so the led zeppelin versions. And chances are no one would even know half of the stuff they copied if it weren't for them copying it... The blues comes from a great tradition of borrowing, stealing, copying, whatever you wanna call it. Robert Johnson copied(borrowed, stoled, copped) his fair share. Are plant and page arrogant rock stars? definitely, but they made good tunes better on their first couple albums, and then made their own fair share of good tunes after that...
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Not tons. For whatever reason, they missed giving credits on some things at first (which mainly concerned lyrics not music, and how much of that was Peter Grant?), but they corrected that and took care of the concerned parties. That's water under the dam.
Is it much different to 'borrow heavily' and give credits? It's still copying, and is often blatant; how many thousands of SRV copycats are there? You can listen to a Page solo and instantly tell it's him. No one else plays like that; he came up with an unusual combination of things to weld into his style.
Everything in blues is copied from something else. I can't see singling anyone out, as they're all guilty. Name one who isn't. Everyone's built on what the guys before them did.
Clapton, who I also admire, copied heavily from Otis Rush, Freddie King, Albert King, Buddy Guy, BB King, etc. Keith's copied heavily from Chuck Berry. Both of these guys made lucrative careers copying other players, and they pocketed the bulk of the proceeds. To villify Page and make Clapton out to be a saint is kind of ridiculous. All musicians, every instrument in every genre, copy others. It's an incestuous field.
Not tons. For whatever reason, they missed giving credits on some things at first (which mainly concerned lyrics not music, and how much of that was Peter Grant?), but they corrected that and took care of the concerned parties. That's water under the dam.
Is it much different to 'borrow heavily' and give credits? It's still copying, and is often blatant; how many thousands of SRV copycats are there? You can listen to a Page solo and instantly tell it's him. No one else plays like that; he came up with an unusual combination of things to weld into his style.
Everything in blues is copied from something else. I can't see singling anyone out, as they're all guilty. Name one who isn't. Everyone's built on what the guys before them did.
Clapton, who I also admire, copied heavily from Otis Rush, Freddie King, Albert King, Buddy Guy, BB King, etc. Keith's copied heavily from Chuck Berry. Both of these guys made lucrative careers copying other players, and they pocketed the bulk of the proceeds. To villify Page and make Clapton out to be a saint is kind of ridiculous. All musicians, every instrument in every genre, copy others. It's an incestuous field.
Agileguy_101
Master of his Domain
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
I'm a HUGE Zep fan, but admit it Blueman, they were pretty much the worst thieves. The intro from Stairway to Heaven isn't even their, for cripes sake! Or Dazed and Confused, neither of which are what I'd consider blues songs.
They were theives, but they made good music. They just didn't make as much of it as they'd like you to think.
I'm a HUGE Zep fan, but admit it Blueman, they were pretty much the worst thieves. The intro from Stairway to Heaven isn't even their, for cripes sake! Or Dazed and Confused, neither of which are what I'd consider blues songs.
They were theives, but they made good music. They just didn't make as much of it as they'd like you to think.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Well then, name some blues players and bands that aren't 'thieves.'
Well then, name some blues players and bands that aren't 'thieves.'
Gypsyblue
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Here's a VERY GOOD old Howard Stern show that was all about Led Zeppelin and their stealing of almost every song on the first Led Zeppelin album and putting their own names on the songs that they'd stolen from other songwriters. Only when Led Zep was SUED did this change. http://www.hark.com/clips/qmqjfdsztg-howard-stern-exposes-led-zeppelin-as-a-farce
Here's a VERY GOOD old Howard Stern show that was all about Led Zeppelin and their stealing of almost every song on the first Led Zeppelin album and putting their own names on the songs that they'd stolen from other songwriters. Only when Led Zep was SUED did this change. http://www.hark.com/clips/qmqjfdsztg-howard-stern-exposes-led-zeppelin-as-a-farce
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
But that's old news, let's put that aside. I'm talking about Page as a musician, and I think in his prime he was a great player, blows away just about any other blues guitarist. 90 miles an hour with wild bends; solos that are still fresh and exciting today. 'I Can't Quit You Babe' has been covered by many bands, but none of them come close to the version from Zeppelin's Royal Albert Hall concert. I've never heard anyone else play like that. Heard many, many SRV and Allman Brothers imitators to the point of nauseum, on CD, radio, and live. It's sad that the 'Strat and a Hat' thing is mindlessly rehashed by so many blues bands.
You don't have to like Page as a person, but the man is very talented.
But that's old news, let's put that aside. I'm talking about Page as a musician, and I think in his prime he was a great player, blows away just about any other blues guitarist. 90 miles an hour with wild bends; solos that are still fresh and exciting today. 'I Can't Quit You Babe' has been covered by many bands, but none of them come close to the version from Zeppelin's Royal Albert Hall concert. I've never heard anyone else play like that. Heard many, many SRV and Allman Brothers imitators to the point of nauseum, on CD, radio, and live. It's sad that the 'Strat and a Hat' thing is mindlessly rehashed by so many blues bands.
You don't have to like Page as a person, but the man is very talented.
lNllClK
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
fftopic: I must agree, that solo during that song is awesome and the feel is great. I've played through that dvd many times... i'm a competent fake. How many more times i think is epic, even the encores are some of my favorite performances of theirs. Awesome stuff. anyway he played his number one on that right? This is somewhat on topic..
fftopic: I must agree, that solo during that song is awesome and the feel is great. I've played through that dvd many times... i'm a competent fake. How many more times i think is epic, even the encores are some of my favorite performances of theirs. Awesome stuff. anyway he played his number one on that right? This is somewhat on topic..
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Re: Page (IMO, of course): Very good studio musician. Never should have self produced. He is a really nice guy, but cluelessly arrogant in a way – the kind of guy who is very arrogant in his playing, but who doesn't realize that he is, because he would never want to be arrogant on purpose. He needed an outside producer to be at his best. There was nobody to rein in the wretched excess of his playing, and control his weak and unmemorable tone during Zep. It made it so they missed their potential greatness. I still listen to them and enjoy them for what they were, but I don't think they were great, and that's mainly due to the fact that they were self produced when they shouldn't have been.
Re: Page (IMO, of course): Very good studio musician. Never should have self produced. He is a really nice guy, but cluelessly arrogant in a way – the kind of guy who is very arrogant in his playing, but who doesn't realize that he is, because he would never want to be arrogant on purpose. He needed an outside producer to be at his best. There was nobody to rein in the wretched excess of his playing, and control his weak and unmemorable tone during Zep. It made it so they missed their potential greatness. I still listen to them and enjoy them for what they were, but I don't think they were great, and that's mainly due to the fact that they were self produced when they shouldn't have been.
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Then there are those of us who love him for the excesses of his playing. Even with the Yardbirds (I have a DVD & CD), his approach was very aggressive (surprising for such a gentle, soft-spoken man). Very fast and bold, very gutsy. Explosive at times. Totally unexpected, and unlike what anyone else would play. I think music needs some guys like that to shake things up. Too many players sound restrained. I get sick of hearing guys give lip service to the politically correct drivel that 'the song comes first', and their playing comes second. I want to hear musicians push themselves to their limits, and at times that means they may dominate a song. Good lord, like the world's going to come to an end!
I admire that Page had the backbone, and talent, to do that. It made Zeppelin what they are. They'd have been a footnote in music history if Page was a timid guitarist, playing it safe and sticking to what was approved by other musicians. What I love most about Zeppelin is Page's excessive solos, live and in the studio. No one plays like that. It's so refreshing to hear someone toss out the rulebook and cut loose. In the late 1960's, Clapton and Hendrix were also guilty of being excessive and indulgent; thank God they didn't hold back to please the critics. They were exciting and unpredictable. Millions loved it and still do. These three guys totally changed music.
For all the complaints heaped upon Zeppelin and Page, it's interesting that for their 2007 reunion concert there were 18,000 tickets available, and 20,000,000 online requests for them.
Then there are those of us who love him for the excesses of his playing. Even with the Yardbirds (I have a DVD & CD), his approach was very aggressive (surprising for such a gentle, soft-spoken man). Very fast and bold, very gutsy. Explosive at times. Totally unexpected, and unlike what anyone else would play. I think music needs some guys like that to shake things up. Too many players sound restrained. I get sick of hearing guys give lip service to the politically correct drivel that 'the song comes first', and their playing comes second. I want to hear musicians push themselves to their limits, and at times that means they may dominate a song. Good lord, like the world's going to come to an end!
I admire that Page had the backbone, and talent, to do that. It made Zeppelin what they are. They'd have been a footnote in music history if Page was a timid guitarist, playing it safe and sticking to what was approved by other musicians. What I love most about Zeppelin is Page's excessive solos, live and in the studio. No one plays like that. It's so refreshing to hear someone toss out the rulebook and cut loose. In the late 1960's, Clapton and Hendrix were also guilty of being excessive and indulgent; thank God they didn't hold back to please the critics. They were exciting and unpredictable. Millions loved it and still do. These three guys totally changed music.
For all the complaints heaped upon Zeppelin and Page, it's interesting that for their 2007 reunion concert there were 18,000 tickets available, and 20,000,000 online requests for them.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
I possibly should care about this, but I just don't. Sorry.
I possibly should care about this, but I just don't. Sorry.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
I do what I can. For some reason, musical plagiarism doesn't really bother me when I (a) heard the rip-off first and (b) like it more than the thing that was ripped off. It's a lot like the primacy effect in pitting covers against the originals, except for the legal and ethical issues that come into it.
A reading from the book of Mike:
"[Sarah's friends encourage her to shoplift, saying], 'Everything in nature steals, you know.' Not to be punctilious, but I think it's fairly easy to come up with many examples of things in nature that don't steal: Aardwolves, they don't steal. Kelp would be another example. Yeast. Pumice. Lithium salts, never been known to steal. Aphids. I could go on, but I think the point is clear: Don't use wholly inaccurate generalizations of the natural world as a basis for your moral framework. When deciding whether or not to commit insurance fraud, don't rely on the advice of friends who say, 'You know everything in nature, especially sandpipers, commits insurance fraud.'"
- Mike Nelson's Movie Megacheese
Amen.
I do what I can. For some reason, musical plagiarism doesn't really bother me when I (a) heard the rip-off first and (b) like it more than the thing that was ripped off. It's a lot like the primacy effect in pitting covers against the originals, except for the legal and ethical issues that come into it.
A reading from the book of Mike:
"[Sarah's friends encourage her to shoplift, saying], 'Everything in nature steals, you know.' Not to be punctilious, but I think it's fairly easy to come up with many examples of things in nature that don't steal: Aardwolves, they don't steal. Kelp would be another example. Yeast. Pumice. Lithium salts, never been known to steal. Aphids. I could go on, but I think the point is clear: Don't use wholly inaccurate generalizations of the natural world as a basis for your moral framework. When deciding whether or not to commit insurance fraud, don't rely on the advice of friends who say, 'You know everything in nature, especially sandpipers, commits insurance fraud.'"
- Mike Nelson's Movie Megacheese
Amen.
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
I agree with that. Some covers turn out better than the originals, and sometimes not. Everything has it's place. Evidently we must have a lot of lawyers here, as they're more concerned with paperwork than the music.
I agree with that. Some covers turn out better than the originals, and sometimes not. Everything has it's place. Evidently we must have a lot of lawyers here, as they're more concerned with paperwork than the music.
MIRAGE
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
If you all want to know the absolute truth about what Jimmy Page's #2 was like, I was in the Gibson West Custom Shop in '89.(It no longer exists) I was going to G.I.T. A long story short. I chose a Showcase model WRC-SR-71 White and very few were made. I needed custom switching, and I was introduced to ROGER GIFFEN. He was very British. He worked on the 1st. "Page" Gibson. If that wasn't Jimmy's Guitar sitting on the bench, as Roger explained, I'll eat your hat! He is a world class luthier and can be contacted. Makes his own line of guitars now in CA, I think. Anyway, One of my brushes with greatness. (I touched it). I SWEAR! Mr. Page, I just had to! T1~MIRAGE
If you all want to know the absolute truth about what Jimmy Page's #2 was like, I was in the Gibson West Custom Shop in '89.(It no longer exists) I was going to G.I.T. A long story short. I chose a Showcase model WRC-SR-71 White and very few were made. I needed custom switching, and I was introduced to ROGER GIFFEN. He was very British. He worked on the 1st. "Page" Gibson. If that wasn't Jimmy's Guitar sitting on the bench, as Roger explained, I'll eat your hat! He is a world class luthier and can be contacted. Makes his own line of guitars now in CA, I think. Anyway, One of my brushes with greatness. (I touched it). I SWEAR! Mr. Page, I just had to! T1~MIRAGE
MIRAGE
New member
Re: Jimmy Page No. 1 Les Paul (With New Info!)
Hi. AS I was saying, I was in the Gibson Custom Shop West 1989 getting my WRC-SR71 built by Roger Giffen. Here's the link to the origins of Jimmy Page's Gibson 1st. guitar made. ROGER GIFFEN DID IT! http://www.higgs.com/archive/casestudies/gibson-guitars/jimmy-page-les-paul.shtml/ Look at the beginnings of exactly what I saw with my own eyeballs and touched, more caressed. "Weird"? Maybe. TRUTH! Peace- T1~MIRAGE
Hi. AS I was saying, I was in the Gibson Custom Shop West 1989 getting my WRC-SR71 built by Roger Giffen. Here's the link to the origins of Jimmy Page's Gibson 1st. guitar made. ROGER GIFFEN DID IT! http://www.higgs.com/archive/casestudies/gibson-guitars/jimmy-page-les-paul.shtml/ Look at the beginnings of exactly what I saw with my own eyeballs and touched, more caressed. "Weird"? Maybe. TRUTH! Peace- T1~MIRAGE
Lovegun
Active member
I'm posting in an old thread, but Jimmy Page has been reunited with his first number one. The guitar he did most of his studio work before Zeppelin and toured with in the early days until it was stolen. https://www.guitarworld.com/feature...ul-custom-nearly-50-years-after-it-was-stolen . It must be nice to have it back. Frampton had his Les Paul returned a few years back. Will Clapton's Beano be found.
