Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

Yes, the bottom pot schematics are very important, that's what was messing him up. I think they're supposed to be read straight on, same as the top push pull sections not upside down.

What do you mean 'straight on'? It looks as if the OOP and Series options are on the top lugs of the bottom pots, but the coil splits are on the bottom lugs of the top pots, so I assumed that the orientation did change, and I was going to base it on which lugs are closest to the pot, rather than using the same up-down orientation on the paper for both top and bottom.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

If that's the case, then this schematic makes even less sense to me. When are the coils split, when the top lugs of the volume DPDTs are active, or the bottom lugs?

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

It doesn't make sense to me looking at it. If 'up' on the page is always the side of the switch opposite the pot, then either the coil splits would be active when the switch is down (because the splits happen on the bottom switch lugs), or OOP and Series are active when the switch is down (because they are on the top switch lugs)

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

It is the opposite. The active lugs when the switch is pulled are the ones "near" the pot.

That linked diagram looks correct, as long as you can read the push-pull orientation.

I messed it up on the series switch, so now "down" is like a blower switch that sets it to Series. I didn't feel like ripping it all out to fix.

Definitely wire the pots on a little piece of cardboard with holes in the right spacing. Much easier to wire up outside of the guitar.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

Okay that makes sense to me. So in the diagram, I should orient the schematic such that the side closest to the pot in the diagram is the side closest to the pot in real life. Right?

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

You guys are telling me two different things here.

PFDarkside is saying that the down orientation for all switches is towards the pot (on the page, down for volumes, up for tones).

Clint is saying the down orientation is down on the page.

To my eyes, I think the first one is correct, because if I follow the series switch, it should be in series when the top two lugs are engaged (closest to pot), and on the OOP switch, the black wire is active when the lugs furthest from the pot are engaged, while green is active when the lugs closest are engaged.

Thats assuming that the coil splits happen when the bottom lugs are active, and I still don't understand those coil splits. But I'm like 99% sure that the switches are in humbucker mode when the top lugs are active. I just dont get how the bottom lugs split the coil.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

I just checked with a MM, when pushed, the lugs furthest from the pot are active.

I still think Darkside is right. I guess I'll just try it out and let you guys know. Worst case scenario I have to flip the wiring on 2 pots.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

Yes, I read the thread in detail and I think I get what you're trying to say (and what they said in the thread), but when I look at the diagram I see something different from that. I'm gonna post a few pictures because we might be saying the same thing and I'm just not understanding you.

I circled in blue the connections I think will be made.

Here is what I believe will be selected when all the switches are pulled up:

If you follow the signal paths through those connections, both coil splits are active. The neck tone switch has the series connection engaged, and the bridge tone is flipping the phase - the green wire from that pickup is active and black goes to ground.

Whereas, when the switches are pushed down:

the red/white wires are isolated, so the pickups are in humbucker mode. Black wire from bridge is active (in phase with black wire from neck) and green is grounded, and the neck tone doesn't connect in series - it just shunts the neck green wire to ground.

So if all of that is correct, then the 'pull' option for the switches is always towards the pots, not towards the bottom of the page, and push is away from the pots.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

Nice. Looks like you got it sorted. Is that dump pic I posted wrong?

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

No the dpdt pic is correct. I never doubted that, I just wasnt sure what the orientations were on the diagram.

Is this what you've been saying all along? Was I just not getting it?

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

So, the diagrams I posted up there are wrong?

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

There's a couple diagrams showing all 4 switches with proper orientation:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1687463

https://www.allparts.com/EP-4144-000-Wiring-Kit-for-Gibson-Jimmy-Page-Les-Paul_p_4447.html

From what I can see this agrees with my diagrams. They seem to be exact replicas of the SD diagram. I think I'm just gonna try it out, I can always flip the wiring if I'm wrong.

Thanks a lot for your help, I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

Ok have fun. After all that, they're all to scale. Great, time to delete all my posts.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

The SD diagram for Jimmy Page wiring is modern-style, not 50s. I've only been able to find one 50s style JP diagram online, but that one splits to screw coils by default instead of the slug coil. This diagram is JP wiring with independent volumes and it splits to the slug coils by default. The tones aren't wired 50s style, but the rest of the diagram is done in such a way as to make that change trivial. I haven't installed it in my LP yet, but I'll hopefully have time to do it in the next week or two.


Edit: The one error I've found so far is that the braided wire for the neck pickup is actually the black wire.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

I get the series and out of phase pieces, but the coil split confuses me. Most others I've seen have red and white going to ground when split

Only the bridge is going to hot when split. I believe this is to keep both pickups hum-cancelling when both are split. Either that or it's related to keeping the bridge active when split but the pickups are in series. Didn't look at it too closely, but I believe it's the former. I've drawn about 15 different variations on the JP wiring scheme and wired the 6 switch version into my SG before, but I'm not sure I would do it the way SD has it. SD as the bridge tone control between the bridge pickup and the volume.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

That one looks exactly like the SD diagram - I didn't even notice it was wired for independent volumes. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll have to figure out how to modify it for standard volume control + 50s style tone control.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

As far as I can tell, I would need to just swap the volume pot wiring such that the output to the switch is on the middle lug and the input from the pickup is on lug 3.

If you also move the tone pot connection along with the pickup input, you retain modern wiring, whereas if you leave it where it is (so that it is now connected along with the output to the switch) you get 50s wiring.

Does that sound right to you guys? I'll draw them up and post them for future reference, in case anyone else wants to do the same.

EDIT: I've contacted SD support to ask if there's any reason the diagram uses independent volume and modern tone wiring. I think I can make the changes I want, but I want to verify that theres nothing I'm missing that would make the circuit suboptimal with those changes. Will update here when I get a response.

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

Okay, here are two modified diagrams that I think are correct. PLEASE check them and tell me if you see any issues.

Jimmy Page Wiring - Standard Volume Controls, 50s Style Tone Wiring:

I've marked my changes with red stars - basically just moved the outputs to the switches to the middle volume lug, and the inputs from the pickups to the left volume lug. I left the tone pot connections as-is, which gives us 50s wiring once the swap is made since the tone control now connects alongside the switch output.

Jimmy Page Wiring - Standard Volume Controls, Modern Style Tone Wiring:

Same changes as above to achieve standard volume controls, but I've marked the additional changes with blue stars. Basically just swapped the tone pot connections so that they connect alongside the pickup inputs.

I hope these are correct (I will be attempting the first one soon, so I'll find out about that one soon enough). I also hope this provides clarity to others who want to do Jimmy Page wiring in the future, and also want to choose how their volume and tone controls work.

For reference, here is the original diagram from SD, which is for independent volume controls and modern style tone wiring:

 

[vinnie1971]

Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

I have done JP wiring - didn’t like it so much so changed it for this instead. But added out of phase as well using a 0.1cap and 1k resistor to get a less extreme out of phase sound.

I can split to the outer coils for Tele like spanky in better tone, inner coils for strat clunky tone and have the humbuckers either with their coils in series or in parallel for hum free single coil tone.

This is a very neat set up.

I did this on dimarzio super distortion and PAF pro

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SunIsLoco]

Re: Jimmy Page Wiring - need some clarity

That wiring mirrors the functionality of the triple shots I already have, actually. I have PGB/JazzN, and to my ears there isn't enough difference between the coils to justify having all those options, which is why I'm switching to JP wiring instead.