Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
I'm glad you did it. My signature was wanting for a quote.
I'm glad you did it. My signature was wanting for a quote.
Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
- Thread starter OdgeUK
- Start date
Iron Horse
New member
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
I don't, but if I want a tiny bit less tight and not as huge bass, PAF-like mids or bit more of them, about the output of Custom or some hot PAF, more like Pearly Gates, and then some. You can't really get that from Custom with a magnet change, can you?
I think I'll get Brobucker, Pearly Gates, or '78 for the bridge.
I don't, but if I want a tiny bit less tight and not as huge bass, PAF-like mids or bit more of them, about the output of Custom or some hot PAF, more like Pearly Gates, and then some. You can't really get that from Custom with a magnet change, can you?
I think I'll get Brobucker, Pearly Gates, or '78 for the bridge.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Son, let me introduce you to the world of magnets, pots & caps. You can add or subtract bass, mid, treble, and output. The odds of a particular PU giving you exact tone you want is a long shot, because that varies with guitar design & wood (every piece of wood has its unique tone qualities, even if cut from the same tree). What do magnets do? The same PU becomes the Custom with a ceramic, a C5 with an A5, and a Custom Custom with an A2; huge differences in tone.
It comes down to this. You can: 1) live with a guitar's tone that isn't what you want, 2) spend hundreds of dollars buying & selling PU's hoping to stumble across a stock PU that fits your wood and desired tone (there are no guarantees), or 3) start using magnets, pots, and caps to dial in your tone. This is simple stuff that a kid can do, so don't roll your eyes & start making excuses.
Alnico Magnets:
A2 - low output, heavy mids, little treble, bass is loose
A3 - low output, like an A2 but with more treble
A4 - mod output, the most balanced EQ of the magnets
A5 - mod/high output, lots of treble & tight bass, scooped mids
A6 - high output with less treble
A8 - high output, like a A2 with muscle
Pots:
250K-300K - takes off some of the highest treble, ideal for bridge PU's
500K - emphasizes treble, ideal for neck PU's, and bridge PU's with warm magnets
Caps:
.022 - for more treble - good for neck
.050 - less treble - good for bridge
.100 - more bass, less treble - good for bridge
There are many old threads about these, with more details, and all you need to know to do the work yourself.
So do you want to keeping buying PU's that someone with good intentions recommended, that may sound totally different in your guitar, especially played through your amp? Or do you want to be self-sufficient and be able to make a PU fit your needs? You are on the best forum to get help to do all of this. So, how soon can you start reading old threads and get up to speed (and don't tell me you've got to pick up some dry-cleaning or rearrange your sock drawer)?
Learn how your Guitar works!
Son, let me introduce you to the world of magnets, pots & caps. You can add or subtract bass, mid, treble, and output. The odds of a particular PU giving you exact tone you want is a long shot, because that varies with guitar design & wood (every piece of wood has its unique tone qualities, even if cut from the same tree). What do magnets do? The same PU becomes the Custom with a ceramic, a C5 with an A5, and a Custom Custom with an A2; huge differences in tone.
It comes down to this. You can: 1) live with a guitar's tone that isn't what you want, 2) spend hundreds of dollars buying & selling PU's hoping to stumble across a stock PU that fits your wood and desired tone (there are no guarantees), or 3) start using magnets, pots, and caps to dial in your tone. This is simple stuff that a kid can do, so don't roll your eyes & start making excuses.
Alnico Magnets:
A2 - low output, heavy mids, little treble, bass is loose
A3 - low output, like an A2 but with more treble
A4 - mod output, the most balanced EQ of the magnets
A5 - mod/high output, lots of treble & tight bass, scooped mids
A6 - high output with less treble
A8 - high output, like a A2 with muscle
Pots:
250K-300K - takes off some of the highest treble, ideal for bridge PU's
500K - emphasizes treble, ideal for neck PU's, and bridge PU's with warm magnets
Caps:
.022 - for more treble - good for neck
.050 - less treble - good for bridge
.100 - more bass, less treble - good for bridge
There are many old threads about these, with more details, and all you need to know to do the work yourself.
So do you want to keeping buying PU's that someone with good intentions recommended, that may sound totally different in your guitar, especially played through your amp? Or do you want to be self-sufficient and be able to make a PU fit your needs? You are on the best forum to get help to do all of this. So, how soon can you start reading old threads and get up to speed (and don't tell me you've got to pick up some dry-cleaning or rearrange your sock drawer)?
Learn how your Guitar works!
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Probably should be vaulted.
Probably should be vaulted.
Iron Horse
New member
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
:dot:Blueman335, I know that the magnets shape the pups tone, but I do know also that they won't make my Custom sound like a 9 k AlNiCo II scatterwound and inner coil a tad hotter than the outer.
:dot:Blueman335, I know that the magnets shape the pups tone, but I do know also that they won't make my Custom sound like a 9 k AlNiCo II scatterwound and inner coil a tad hotter than the outer.
:chairshot:dot:
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
I think there's a bit more confusion than this-
I don't think #1 had any wiring mods until recently.
From what I recall, #2 had the 2 pushbutton switches under the pickguard- and I swear I recall seeing Zep era pictures with those switches visible. From everything I've read the switches were phase and series parallel. I'd never heard of Page using push/pull pots until the first JP sig came out in 95 or so.
The point there is that if you're looking for Zep tones, it's pretty much a straight guitar/humbucker thing.
I think there's a bit more confusion than this-
I don't think #1 had any wiring mods until recently.
From what I recall, #2 had the 2 pushbutton switches under the pickguard- and I swear I recall seeing Zep era pictures with those switches visible. From everything I've read the switches were phase and series parallel. I'd never heard of Page using push/pull pots until the first JP sig came out in 95 or so.
The point there is that if you're looking for Zep tones, it's pretty much a straight guitar/humbucker thing.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Oh, come on...all of my guitars have replacement PU's, and almost all have push-pulls. Soldering is a skill any 12 year old can master in minutes, and magnets, pots, and caps are cheap & plentiful. Any reasonably intelligent adult that can operate a car, computer, & a remote control, can rewire a guitar. This is a simple as electronics get, and with less than a half watt running through your guitar, you can't get electrocuted. Every electrical part has at least one hot & a ground wire running to it. The most common mistake is leaving a part out of the grounding (all grounds are connected in one big network). I am self-taught with no prior experience or knowledge of electronics or soldering. I wish I knew about this forum when I started re-wiring!
For a Gibson/Epi style guitar, I mainly use several alternative wirings that give the most bang for the buck:
One push-pull - connect the two "extra" wires from the bridge HB to one side of the bridge volume PP, and the "extra" wires from the neck PU to the other. Use the opposites colored wires on the bridge, so you activate the slug coil, which is warmer & louder than the screw coil (which is tinny & thin on its own). This gives you 6 options (bridge series, bridge coil cut, neck series, neck coil cut, both series, both coil cut). For a few dollars & a half hour of your time, this is an unbeatable way to double your sound choices. And no new holes in your guitar!
Two push-pulls - same as above, but add a PP on the bridge tone control, for out-of-phase. This has 8 options (the six from above, with both out-of-phase in series, and out-of-phase in coil cut).
Four push-pulls - the Jimmy Page system, which gives over 21 combinations of series, coil cut, out-of-phase, and parallel. You can wire most of the harness ahead of time, and test it with your guitar with alligator clips (before you pull out your old harness).
Print out the wiring diagram & follow the colors. Try it on an inexpensive guitar first.
Oh, come on...all of my guitars have replacement PU's, and almost all have push-pulls. Soldering is a skill any 12 year old can master in minutes, and magnets, pots, and caps are cheap & plentiful. Any reasonably intelligent adult that can operate a car, computer, & a remote control, can rewire a guitar. This is a simple as electronics get, and with less than a half watt running through your guitar, you can't get electrocuted. Every electrical part has at least one hot & a ground wire running to it. The most common mistake is leaving a part out of the grounding (all grounds are connected in one big network). I am self-taught with no prior experience or knowledge of electronics or soldering. I wish I knew about this forum when I started re-wiring!
For a Gibson/Epi style guitar, I mainly use several alternative wirings that give the most bang for the buck:
One push-pull - connect the two "extra" wires from the bridge HB to one side of the bridge volume PP, and the "extra" wires from the neck PU to the other. Use the opposites colored wires on the bridge, so you activate the slug coil, which is warmer & louder than the screw coil (which is tinny & thin on its own). This gives you 6 options (bridge series, bridge coil cut, neck series, neck coil cut, both series, both coil cut). For a few dollars & a half hour of your time, this is an unbeatable way to double your sound choices. And no new holes in your guitar!
Two push-pulls - same as above, but add a PP on the bridge tone control, for out-of-phase. This has 8 options (the six from above, with both out-of-phase in series, and out-of-phase in coil cut).
Four push-pulls - the Jimmy Page system, which gives over 21 combinations of series, coil cut, out-of-phase, and parallel. You can wire most of the harness ahead of time, and test it with your guitar with alligator clips (before you pull out your old harness).
Print out the wiring diagram & follow the colors. Try it on an inexpensive guitar first.
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
While I do believe that you should try to get the best tone you can conceive- if you're getting a tone you like by having things stock- that's fine.
While there are people that will always want more choices- the last thing I want to be doing on stage is fumbling around with push pull pots and balancing switches and all that. Flip the toggle, set the volume and go. I regularly have only 3 pedals in front of me (one is a tuner), and I still get mixed up when I'm playing.
While I do believe that you should try to get the best tone you can conceive- if you're getting a tone you like by having things stock- that's fine.
While there are people that will always want more choices- the last thing I want to be doing on stage is fumbling around with push pull pots and balancing switches and all that. Flip the toggle, set the volume and go. I regularly have only 3 pedals in front of me (one is a tuner), and I still get mixed up when I'm playing.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Well, just when I thought that nothing beats plain antiquity humbuckers...
I tried the Jimmy Page combo (both humbuckers, in series, out of phase) in two combinations:
This is just awesome. I'll never run without this capability anymore. As mentioned in the other mod thread, I rather lose the normal two-humbucker (parallel) sound and flip a magnet in one pickup than not having this.
OK, so now for opening these Ants...
As I said earlier, just because you switch two things at once doesn't mean you need two switches. Once switch can have many pairs of contacts.
Unless I lack caffeine this drawing allows you to do this:
- Position 1: parallel in-phase
- Position 2: series out-of-phase
- With a switch with three pair of contacts
So even though you only have one switch you have both the series/parallel and the phase switching capabilities. Of course not in all combinations, but in the useful combinations.
Well, just when I thought that nothing beats plain antiquity humbuckers...
I tried the Jimmy Page combo (both humbuckers, in series, out of phase) in two combinations:
- An APH2 bridge version in the neck with a JB in the bridge
- A '59 neck and a CC in the bridge
This is just awesome. I'll never run without this capability anymore. As mentioned in the other mod thread, I rather lose the normal two-humbucker (parallel) sound and flip a magnet in one pickup than not having this.
OK, so now for opening these Ants...
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Hey Blueman, hi again, maybe you remember me from the thread I asked about how to re-wire my 335...
Well two days ago I got everything I ordered from guitar electronics, the JP kit, plus four other 500k and 250k CTS pots (just in case), wires, etc. I'll get on with the project as soon as I find the time. I still have the TB-11 for the neck position. Can I change the magnets and make it more suitable for that position, instead of buying a new PU??
Hey Blueman, hi again, maybe you remember me from the thread I asked about how to re-wire my 335...
Well two days ago I got everything I ordered from guitar electronics, the JP kit, plus four other 500k and 250k CTS pots (just in case), wires, etc. I'll get on with the project as soon as I find the time. I still have the TB-11 for the neck position. Can I change the magnets and make it more suitable for that position, instead of buying a new PU??
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Yes, change magnets if you suspect that the ones you have now may not have the EQ you want.
If you need help with the project, PM me. Good luck.
Yes, change magnets if you suspect that the ones you have now may not have the EQ you want.
If you need help with the project, PM me. Good luck.
Iron Horse
New member
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
TB Custom Custom wouldn't be my first choice as a neck pup, it's quite hot, and has very little highs even in bridge. Even with a magnet change it wouldn't be perfected for neck position, because AII is the weakest magnet, and has the least bass, so I think you should ditch that idea of putting a Custom-series bucker in neck position.
TB Custom Custom wouldn't be my first choice as a neck pup, it's quite hot, and has very little highs even in bridge. Even with a magnet change it wouldn't be perfected for neck position, because AII is the weakest magnet, and has the least bass, so I think you should ditch that idea of putting a Custom-series bucker in neck position.
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
I know, Blueman told me... Anyway, even if it's only good for learning that'll do.
I'll keep looking around for a good deal for a neck pickup.
Thanks for the advice.
I know, Blueman told me... Anyway, even if it's only good for learning that'll do.
I'll keep looking around for a good deal for a neck pickup.
Thanks for the advice.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Jimmy Page's #2 Les Paul
Have you checked eBay? That's where I've gotten most of my PU's, new or used? The new are sometimes discounted off store price, and the used typically go for half of the new price.
Have you checked eBay? That's where I've gotten most of my PU's, new or used? The new are sometimes discounted off store price, and the used typically go for half of the new price.