Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

The C5 was the best of the bunch but the low end was boomy so i kept on searching. If i could tame the bass in the C5 it would work ok.

I might try it again for reference with the standard A5 magnet instead of the UOA5 i switched to.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Can anyone comment on PRS Dragon 2 pickups? There's a set for sale that i could pickup relatively cheap.... i think the 1998 CE came with these originally so maybe they work well??
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Can't hurt, might help...

Also, what strings are you using? You may need to switch alloys to really bring out the guitar...
 
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Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Can anyone comment on PRS Dragon 2 pickups? There's a set for sale that i could pickup relatively cheap.... i think the 1998 CE came with these originally so maybe they work well??

I replaced the excellent Dragon II's in my two PRS Custom 22's with Duncan Custom Shop Pearly Gates, which I like even better.

I'll make you a deal: I'll tell you all about the Dragon II's (alnico 5, 8K & 12K) if you'll post some detailed, clear and close up photos of the wiring of your guitar.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Wiring Pics

btWqZBM.jpg


BBRgBbZ.jpg


9YI0vCu.jpg
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Can anyone comment on PRS Dragon 2 pickups? There's a set for sale that i could pickup relatively cheap.... i think the 1998 CE came with these originally so maybe they work well??

I had a Dragon 2 in the neck of a 2001 Singlecut. It was alright. I think the PRS website description is fair.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Have you considered something like Dimebucker/Bill Lawrence L500s? Those are super articulate pickups...just a thought.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Wiring Pics

btWqZBM.jpg


BBRgBbZ.jpg


9YI0vCu.jpg

OK...here's what my PRS looks like inside: IMG_0707.JPG

Much simpler wiring.

I can see any number of areas where it looks like the wiring in your guitar could be shorting out. You have the tone cap between the volume and tone pots and it looks like it could be touching one of the shielded cables for example.

I don't think Dragon II pickups are going to give you what you want if you don't get that wiring cleaned up first. But they are excellent pickups.

The neck is an alnico 5 PAF style pickup wound to about 8K. Very nice pickup. Great cleans for chords and great overdriven tones for Santana-esque solos. A typical, really good, alnico 5 PAF like pickup.

The bridge pickup is too hot for my tastes but actually sounds very good. It too is alnico 5 and it's hotter than the bridge pickups in my Pearly Gates and APH-2 Slash sets but not as hot as a Duncan JB.

Looking at your wiring, I'd unsolder every connection and clean all of the terminals and remove all of the excess solder so that I'd have nice clean surfaces and holes in the terminals to feed wire through again.

I'd also remove the push pull coil splitting tone pot and just put a standard 500K pot in there. That looks like a real rat's nest in your guitar and could be an area where something's shorting out or incorrectly wired as well.

IMO, you need to clean up that wiring and copy the wiring in my PRS Singlecut. Except for the new APH-2 pickups in that guitar, it's stock PRS wiring.

That's what your wiring should look like.

BTW, if you look at the tone control in the photo of my guitar there's what looks like a brownish red wire but it's actually the tone capacitor seen from the edge. One lead is soldered to the back of the pot and if you look closely you can see it. The other lead is soldered to the #3 terminal of the tone pot just to the left of the middle terminal.

The #1 terminal of the tone pot, to the right of the middle terminal as viewed in the photo, is empty. Nothing is connected to it.

That green colored cable is a shielded cable with the ground soldered to the back of the tone pot and the little white center wire soldered to the middle terminal of the tone pot.

The other end of that white wire inside the green cable is soldered to the input of the volume control. So is the white wire inside the red cable leading from the output of the switch.
 
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Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I didn't reference the actual pics to the wiring diagram, but I'm going to take a shot in the dark and suggest the wiring is wonky somewhere.

Some of those joints are pretty nasty looking and you've got some weird stuff going on, like running a wire from the pot to the braided shield instead of soldering the braided shield directly to a pot. Add in the 8-10 connections at the push/pull and there's a whole lot of room for error in that cavity.

Not saying you did a bad job, by the way, just that there are a lot of places where things could go wrong and some of those joints are suspect.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I had an all mahogany 2006 PRS CE, it was middy to say the least. The Stock dragon IIs are middy as well, The best bridge pickup I found after trying 59-09s, JB, Custom 5, Custom 8, Dragon IIs, WLH, Distortion was the good ole SH-5 ceramic custom, the bass was tighter and the Ceramic pushed some highs through as well. A close second and the biggest surprise to me was the SH-6 Distortion, Very well behaved in that solid block of Mahogany as was the custom, mine had the 5 way Rotary switch and both of those pickups kept the splits sounding reasonably similar in volume. Lew I've had multiple SE single cuts and they are a different beast than these USA CEs. Much more open and bright sounding, just amazing guitars for the Price.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

OK...here's what my PRS looks like inside: View attachment 74364

Much simpler wiring.

I can see any number of areas where it looks like the wiring in your guitar could be shorting out. You have the tone cap between the volume and tone pots and it looks like it could be touching one of the shielded cables for example.

I don't think Dragon II pickups are going to give you what you want if you don't get that wiring cleaned up first. But they are excellent pickups.

The neck is an alnico 5 PAF style pickup wound to about 8K. Very nice pickup. Great cleans for chords and great overdriven tones for Santana-esque solos. A typical, really good, alnico 5 PAF like pickup.

The bridge pickup is too hot for my tastes but actually sounds very good. It too is alnico 5 and it's hotter than the bridge pickups in my Pearly Gates and APH-2 Slash sets but not as hot as a Duncan JB.

Looking at your wiring, I'd unsolder every connection and clean all of the terminals and remove all of the excess solder so that I'd have nice clean surfaces and holes in the terminals to feed wire through again.

I'd also remove the push pull coil splitting tone pot and just put a standard 500K pot in there. That looks like a real rat's nest in your guitar and could be an area where something's shorting out or incorrectly wired as well.

IMO, you need to clean up that wiring and copy the wiring in my PRS Singlecut. Except for the new APH-2 pickups in that guitar, it's stock PRS wiring.

That's what your wiring should look like.

BTW, if you look at the tone control in the photo of my guitar there's what looks like a brownish red wire but it's actually the tone capacitor seen from the edge. One lead is soldered to the back of the pot and if you look closely you can see it. The other lead is soldered to the #3 terminal of the tone pot just to the left of the middle terminal.

The #1 terminal of the tone pot, to the right of the middle terminal as viewed in the photo, is empty. Nothing is connected to it.

That green colored cable is a shielded cable with the ground soldered to the back of the tone pot and the little white center wire soldered to the middle terminal of the tone pot.

The other end of that white wire inside the green cable is soldered to the input of the volume control. So is the white wire inside the red cable leading from the output of the switch.


Thanks for the detailed info....i'll try to sort it out this week and clean it up. I do know that i want to keep the push/pull... i really like that option.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Just for experiment, bypass everything, go straight from the bridge pickup to the volume pot, eliminate others wires and caps and switches e tone pot and the neck pickup, leave the wire going from the center lug to the output only and see what happens, if you notice a big difference, as I suspect, it's a wiring issue.

(I would get rid of that circuit anyway, I'd go with a much simpler 50's wiring, but it's a matter of taste, I do like it much more anb I don't like split HB)
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

I think I see the problem -- why in the world is the tone pot connected to the pickup selector switch? I would try cutting that to see if that brightens things up.

No, I think the wire goes to the switch, in the drawing below there are two connected lugs only on the tone pot
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

No, there's a "red from tone goes to switch" label.

That ain't right.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

After seeing the guts of the OP's PRS, I'd have to say no doubt that he has issues. The first being wiring and components that remind me of stock Gibson guitar, not knocking the guitars themselves just the "cost saving" wiring/components of said guitars.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

No, there's a "red from tone goes to switch" label.

That ain't right.


yes it is, the red goes from "tone pot [switch] ", the upper drawing is not clear, the one below indicates the connections, they seem right. I don't know if the OP has followed this design, which is a bit unclear in my opinion
 
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Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

*** UPDATE ***

I wired directly to the volume and 3-way and the guitar sounds great! It's so much clearer and alive now and the AP2 sounds great in the neck.

I tried 3 bridge pickups tonight, CC, Aldrich and C5 and the C5 is the winner! I'm leaving like this for awhile

I would like to eventually use the Mcarty switching so if you could recommend a top notch push/pull I would appreciate it

Thanks for all the replies
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

PRS makes a pre-wired McCarty harness, complete with treble bleed. Considering some of the issues you've had it might be worth looking into.
 
Re: Just about done with this guitar... Muddy sounding PRS problems continue

Congrats, man! Knew it was the wiring :)

Glad you got it sorted (for now)
 
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