Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

[Diego]

In the same store that I tried that kickass expensive Les Paul in my other thread, there was also a new, Chinese Epiphone Dot for a very reasonable price.
I've always gassed for a 335 or anything similar so I thought why not. Tried it before the Gibson of course, through the same amp.
Oh My.

1) Crap fretwork.

I could feel the frets resisting any stretches I did, and it didn't feel like grease or gunk. Instead it had that "serrated" feel that you know it's down to poor crowning.
It didn't feel too smooth on the sides of the fretboard either. So an inmediate no-go on that one. I've tried other Epis and they were nowhere near this level. Appaling and totally unacceptable for the price.

2) Pickups. What the hell?

I know, we're all a bit spoiled in here, aren't we? We're a bit more demanding than the average consumer, but come on.
The neck pickup was boomy as hell, way too hot for its purpose, unarticulate in the highs and kinda scoopy. The bridge pickup was way weaker in output (it was set a bit too low but not enough to justify the difference), thin and raspy. It couldn't sound less 335-ish if you dropped Blackouts on it.
Zero mids, warmth or "wood" in the sound and that's not what you want out of a semihollow, right? I guess they're cheap ceramics meant to be replaced or something.
I thought maybe the amp wasn't helping matters, but I plugged the Historic LP afterwards and that thing killed through it.

3) No setup at all.

The nut wasn't well cut at all and way too high, the frets were awful, pickups were set at random height/angle, it wasn't intonated and the neck definitely needed a bit less relief.
I'm not expecting a world-class setup out of a cheap chinese instrument, but all of this does play against it a bit too much.

I have no experience with MIK Epi semihollows but I've tried a few old MIK Epi Les Pauls and I'm betting there's no way the Korean Dots could be this bad.
Very dissapointed with this one.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Some of the worst guitars I've experienced have been Epiphones. Don't know what's up with that.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Agree that finding a guitar with a neck that feels good intuitively is one of the most important things. Not gonna argue with that at all. My Epi Dot's neck feels pretty good but I did have to put a lot of work into the frets. One of my LP specials' necks is kind of boxy and doesn't feel the greatest.

But I don't get why people review guitars based on things that weren't supposed to be there in the first place! Most production guitars don't have any fret work at all. Ekspecially budget guitars. They set the frets in the neck and that's it. You're supposed to do the fine tuning. Either do a level if it needs it. Or if everything plays perfectly take some 1000+ sandpaper to the frets then follow with oil to remove the grittiness of the bends. Job done. It's not the guitar's fault.

Same with the set up. Criticizing the guitar for its set up is like saying its bad because it came with bad strings. wtf. And of course the pickups are gonna suck and be at completely the wrong height resulting in a total crap sound.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Since when is everyone buying a $399 guitar supposed to be polishing frets or taking it somewhere to have the building of the guitar completed? I expect a new guitar to be playable regardless of its price point.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Most cheap guitars I pickup have terrible setups. I don't mean not to my liking, I mean it was put together with zero adjustment. That's expected. The sandpaper frets are pretty bad, though. A lot of budget Ibanez guitars at my local mom & pop are like that. That was not the case when they carried Fender.

I don't know that I've ever played a new Epiphone guitar.

 

[Diego]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Agree that finding a guitar with a neck that feels good intuitively is one of the most important things. Not gonna argue with that at all. My Epi Dot's neck feels pretty good but I did have to put a lot of work into the frets. One of my LP specials' necks is kind of boxy and doesn't feel the greatest.

But I don't get why people review guitars based on things that weren't supposed to be there in the first place! Most production guitars don't have any fret work at all. Ekspecially budget guitars. They set the frets in the neck and that's it. You're supposed to do the fine tuning. Either do a level if it needs it. Or if everything plays perfectly take some 1000+ sandpaper to the frets then follow with oil to remove the grittiness of the bends. Job done. It's not the guitar's fault.

Same with the set up. Criticizing the guitar for its set up is like saying its bad because it came with bad strings. wtf. And of course the pickups are gonna suck and be at completely the wrong height resulting in a total crap sound.

Not my experience with other brands, man.

PRS SE models for example usually bring frets that feel much more polished and decent-ish pickups (sometimes keepers in certain models). They'll need a setup but you might skip taking it to a tech if you choose a good one.
I recently bought a Chinese Jackson for way less than the Dot I checked today. The nut was a mess that I fixed myself but the frets are quite good actually. Hasn't been to a tech yet and I'm not feeling the urge so far.

In the same price range, some Cort and Schecter guitars have graphtech nuts stock and Duncan Designed pickups.
LTD will have EMG 81/60 combos and I've never tried one it didn't feel at least OK in the fretwork apartment.

All of the forementioned in the same price range, so yeah, of course I'll expect that in any guitar on that price range. Why not? It's business and competititon out there.
What I tried today could have been a dog that skipped QC though, and I hope it was.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Good example of the PRS SE. Yes there are a lot of guitars out there that feel nice right away for under $500. But it's not because they're doing fret work to them, they stick the frets in the neck and that's it. Sometimes you get a perfect one, sometimes not. And they purposely set the action really high so it can be brought down for the customer. It isn't the guitar's fault.

As far as expecting a guitar to feel perfectly for under $400, I assume if someone had absolutely no clue what they were doing, but asked the shop to fix the set up a bit for them before buying, I'm sure the shop would help them out for not too much money. But criticizing the guitar itself for things that can be (and are supposed to be) corrected easily is like buying a bike for $200 and then complaining because you don't want to adjust the seat height or lube the chain.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

It's funny- back in the day, somebody said, "This budget guitar kinda sucks," and everyone else nodded along. Now, suggest that a budget guitar is inferior to its high end counterpart in any way, and out come the lynch mobs.

I blame the internet.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I'm just used to finding most new guitars reasonably ready to play. Not perfect, not my ideal, but playable.

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

The Dots are hit-or-miss. But I feel that Epiphone does pretty well with semi-hollow and hollow guitars that are uniquely Epiphone, and not a cheaper version of a Gibson.

That means stuff like the Wildkat, Casino, and the Sheraton. The Inspired by 66, with just a single neck P90, is actually rather badass.

I would take a good Epiphone any day over a 6K Gibson. A guitar that's almost worth more than my car is way too big a risk.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

IMHE ( In my humble estimation ) the 1K pricemark ( for an import) is where u need to look for a guitar that plays properly wth levelled and finished frets and has respectable build quality ( electronics, and finish, etc.)out of the box. In my expereience, teh Warmoth stuff , even the expensive stuff ,always needs lots of leveling work on the necks.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

check out tokai for a much nicer (and real cheap) 335 knockoff.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

The Dots are hit-or-miss. Bu.

the dots are not' hit and miss'-they are cookie cutter guitars-all the same. As they are imports, there may be a negilible but still greater than USA manufacturing standards percentage that passed quality control that ended up for sale here aren't as good as the rest, but the age old "play tons of mexican/koren/ strats or les pauls to find a good one" is more than stupid,it's insane.

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME 99.9% of the time. Difference may be in the string height or something, or the age of the strings or a twist of the truss rod due to seasonal adjustment.

 

[Diego]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

It's funny- back in the day, somebody said, "This budget guitar kinda sucks," and everyone else nodded along. Now, suggest that a budget guitar is inferior to its high end counterpart in any way, and out come the lynch mobs.

I blame the internet.

I blame the Internet too. I must have great luck with the local stores or something man, right?

I know what you mean. It's not like I described the guitar as botched because I felt like thrashing Epiphone today. I put it that way because IMO it is botched.
I didn't compare to an axe coming out of a great tech's bench or a $2000 counterpart. On it's own it was poor for today's standard.

Yeah, I shouldn't expect a budget guitar to be well setup out of the box. But even some cheapos nowadays come with a more polished feel from factory. I'm looking at you, Cort/Dean/LTD. And of course, pickups that might not flatter, but certainly don't ruin things.
Yeah, I'll do a reasonable setup myself and I'll improve on it. But rough, uncrowned frets? **** that. I'll accept that on a Squier Affinity, maybe.

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I think Epiphones make some really good guitars. I have a 2006 Epi Les Paul Standard and this guitar was well built and plays perfectly. It has a slim 60's taper neck on it which feels perfect for my hands. The guitar is setup nicely (truss rod relief, action of the strings and intonation). It's one of my main guitars now.



;>)/

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

^ Doubt it.You must do fairly high action. Those Epis bottom out REAL fast if you set them up for low action. I know for certain. Extensive fret leveling is a pre-requisite. Enjoy your your golden gate bridge action.
FWIW, I ahve an Epiphone Korean ZAkk Wylde Les PaUl. Love it WITH A HIGH GAINAMP( MY 5150 PEAVY), but out of the box it needed ext(P)ensive set up fret work .They all do in order to achieve reasonably low action.They don't do a lot of expensive fret work on those guitars at that price point.It was close to one thousand dollars..not close enuf I guess.

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

^ Doubt it.You must do fairly high action. Those Epis bottom out REAL fast if you set them up for low action. I know for certain. Extensive fret leveling is a pre-requisite. Enjoy your your golden gate bridge action.
FWIW, I ahve an Epiphone Korean ZAkk Wylde Les PaUl. Love it WITH A HIGH GAINAMP( MY 5150 PEAVY), but out of the box it needed ext(P)ensive set up fret work .They all do in order to achieve reasonably low action.They don't do a lot of expensive fret work on those guitars at that price point.It was close to one thousand dollars..not close enuf I guess.

You doubt it? I guess you must have tried my guitar out when I wasn't watching...you sneaky devil!



;>)/

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Enjoy your your golden gate bridge action.

LOL. On my Dot, one of the frets was so low that when played all I got was a click and a buzz. No note! Haha. It took me like 15-20 min of sawing away with the fret level to get them even. It's nice now tho after all my work. 12-56 flats and an A2P.

Frets vary guitar by guitar tho no matter how expensive it is. Unless the company does actual fret work after setting the frets. Like if you watch the Gibson factory vid, they have a machine that levels the frets when placed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm-_pUsHirw&t=15s

However if you watch the Fender factory vid no work other than slamming the frets in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHdQLaoDOoU

 

[ledzef]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

On the import market I've been pleasantly surprised with the Indonesian made gear. Good fit and form for the price.

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[vinnie1971]

Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Most guitars have reasonable to terrible setups. I only had one that was near perfect and that was my Cort YorkTown BV.

My Epiphone Les Paul standard was close on action and intonation but as normal slightly too low, slightly too sharp.
Also the pickups are set the same distance from the strings and were too close so got that booming neck issue. But all that was easily fixed. That was. Brand new.
My Epiphone Firebird was way off - there were high frets which the previous owner attempted to address with excessive shims so the action was as high as it could go but pickups could not be adjusted as they were as high as they could go. That needed a fret level and shim removed and it was fine.

But for me as long as the neck is decent I don't mind a bit of work to get things playing perfect.

Nearly half my guitars I have done a fret level, crown and polish and it fixed scratchy string bends and buzzing issues .

I even had a classical guitar costing £2000 that needed nut and saddles sanding down 2mm to get string action of 3mm bass 2.5 mm treble as per standard classical set up. It wasn't unplayable but the action was high enough to make it feeel horrible to play and cause intonation issues all over the neck.

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