Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

[ken361]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I just got one in Dec I needed a humbucking guitar again, after seeing vids of the Epi Les Paul Special II going against the Gibsons I had to try one and they are great! they are very similar in sound and lots of sustain and I owned 3 gibbys in the past! no fret buzz, no string binding in the nut like gibsons, stays in tune. im surprised! even the guy at GC said the quality has been good the last few years. Sounds great on my DSL powerful pickups I thought I would never own a bolt on paul LOL. They have a machine that puts the frets in now or recently

 

[rufus]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I've played epiphones that are absolute dogs.
Plastic kind of feel, but... I own two epiphone's, a indonesian made dot and a chinese made les paul.
The dot is a fantastic guitar, needed no fretwork, it has the old 57ch pickups. After properly setting them up i'm very pleased with them. I had a bone nut installed, the plastic one was junk.
The les paul is a great guitar also, it was a limited run with a long neck tenon and burstbuckers. Also gave it a good set-up and a bone nut.
Resale value is bad, the guitars themselves are great.
I've had bad experiences with gibson twice, recently saw a james trussard telecaster neck with some kind of defect in it at the guitartech's workspot.
The poorest thing i saw there was a semi-hollow gibson les paul supreme that had a bow in the neck that couldn't be fixed without major repair costs.
I had a gibson les paul studio from 2003, sharp fret ends poor tuners, poorly cut nut. That's an american made guitar.

My point is, don't expect cheap guitars to be set-up well. The higher priced american models also have their flaws at a much higher price point.
The cheap guitars i can live with if they need a set-up, but if you buy an american made guitar and pay the big bucks you'd expect that there's no set-up required.

 

[Exojam]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I am a new player, less than a year. I picked up a Epiphone SG 400 from a local store and they stated it was setup coorectly, and myself being new and not knowing what to look at was very happy when I took it out the door.

Only later by playing and hearing strange sounds when playing and hiring a instructor did I find out the guitar was not setup correctly at all. I went through the basic setup steps but the guitar needed a complete fret leaving and all that entails (needless to say StewMac got a little bit of money from me).

To be honest though I did not mind since I did everything myself and learned valuable knowledge about setting up and what to look for in the future but I will I am no where near the best at least I can handle most stuff I will run into by myself? I am hoping to do some setup checking on my new RRTX in the next few days.

 

[Diego]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Don't think I like to bash cheap guitars or something, people.
Just look at my signature.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

We weren't bashing you either. :beerchug:

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I am still paying on a Epiphone Brent Hinds V. It plays better with as good of fretwork out of the box than my setup Gibson Gothic V does. Granted it's a higher end Epiphone but it's by no means an inferior guitar. It is my first Epi that's a keeper though. Try before you buy for sure, I think they are generally better guitars than they were 10-20 years ago.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Some of the worst guitars I've experienced have been Epiphones. Don't know what's up with that.

I guess you haven't "experienced" very many.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

Agree that finding a guitar with a neck that feels good intuitively is one of the most important things. Not gonna argue with that at all. My Epi Dot's neck feels pretty good but I did have to put a lot of work into the frets. One of my LP specials' necks is kind of boxy and doesn't feel the greatest.

But I don't get why people review guitars based on things that weren't supposed to be there in the first place! Most production guitars don't have any fret work at all. Ekspecially budget guitars. They set the frets in the neck and that's it. You're supposed to do the fine tuning. Either do a level if it needs it. Or if everything plays perfectly take some 1000+ sandpaper to the frets then follow with oil to remove the grittiness of the bends. Job done. It's not the guitar's fault.

Same with the set up. Criticizing the guitar for its set up is like saying its bad because it came with bad strings. wtf. And of course the pickups are gonna suck and be at completely the wrong height resulting in a total crap sound.

OMG! I can't believe I'm going to say this, but...........I totally agree with Clint 55. (as I hang my head in humble silence).

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I've owned and played MANY guitars over the past (nearly) 60 years, and every PRS SE felt and played like crap. There were a couple that I tried really, really hard to like because they were so gorgeous and priced really good, but IMO they were total junk at any price.

Also, every Epi 335 or 339 (339 especially) felt and played like crap. I'm normally a real Epi advocate but I have to agree with you about the feel of their 335's.

 

[Diego]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I am still paying on a Epiphone Brent Hinds V. It plays better with as good of fretwork out of the box than my setup Gibson Gothic V does. Granted it's a higher end Epiphone but it's by no means an inferior guitar. It is my first Epi that's a keeper though. Try before you buy for sure, I think they are generally better guitars than they were 10-20 years ago.

I so want one of those, man.
Being a Mastodon nut it's hard not to want one but come on: Rare finish, kickass pickups, thick as bricks and a beautiful fretboard.

Serious envy here!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

To me, every guitar is hit or miss, no matter the price. A well playing, expensive guitar can be a complete miss for my needs or my hands- action isn't right, neck isn't the right size, etc.
But any guitar above $400 or so should at least be structurally sound. I look for potential when I look at a cheaper guitar, not if it is exactly perfect for my needs. Can I make it perfect with some time and tools? Do I want to invest $?

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I think we can all agree that replacing the neck is just part of a good setup.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I agree with Clint 55.

What a world, what a world! :knockedou

 

[Thundermtn]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I so want one of those, man.
Being a Mastodon nut it's hard not to want one but come on: Rare finish, kickass pickups, thick as bricks and a beautiful fretboard.

Serious envy here!

The hammer claws sound awesome! Kind of like a hot ceramic PAF but not crazy over the top hot/metal sounding, really versatile too. I bought it for a stage beater but it easily punches above it's class. My individual guitar is as good or better than some of my other hand picked stuff that cost double what this one did. Still try before you buy, but this is one to not pass up if you can swing it.

I'll be posting it in a NGD thread when I get it home here pretty soon.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

It's funny- back in the day, somebody said, "This budget guitar kinda sucks," and everyone else nodded along. Now, suggest that a budget guitar is inferior to its high end counterpart in any way, and out come the lynch mobs.

I blame the internet.

I blame it on better quality of the budget guitars, and poorer quality of the high end counterpart.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I blame it on better quality of the budget guitars, and poorer quality of the high end counterpart.

This. Machines are shaping guitars today at every level, and big companies are timing the final setups so they can do many guitars in a day. This happens at every price point. Maybe a piece of wood on a $2k guitar sounds better than one at $500, but maybe not. Maybe the final setup guy/girl hurried through so they could get to their lunch break. We have been trained to think that if we spend more money, it is automatically better (and a $1000 guitar might be 2x better than a $500 guitar), but anyone who has shoupped around in the last 20 years knows that isn't the case.
When I toured the Gibson Memphis plant, I was amazed at how few human hands actually touched the guitar in the assembly process.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that you shouldn't expect even minimally leveled/crowned frets on a sub-500$ guitar.

In my youth (hate that I even say that phrase...), I had the fortune to have both the free time and the opportunity to try LOT of guitars.
I came across MANY lower-end Gibsons (lower-end meaning sub-3000$ by Gibson standards) that had rectangular frets with no sign of crowning whatsoever and A LOT of Korean or Indonesian-made, sub-500 (heck, sub-350$) guitars with perfectly serviceable frets, not perfect by any stretch of the word but certainly not even remotely bad.

I DO agree that when I buy a guitar I FULLY expect to have it setup to my preference and the frets re-done to those specifications, however I am NEVER gonna buy a guitar I cannot play-test properly to see whether it would be worth the money and trouble to do so.

If you want to see how inexpensive guitars should be made circa 2000+, just check Schecter, Michael Kelly, Washburn, Dean, Yamaha, heck even Squier and Jackson are upping up their game.

Like mentioned already, nowadays guitars are made using so precise machinery that makes them so quickly, there is NO excuse for not making the effort to at least finish them up properly.

 

[shupe13]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I've never had a bad Epiphone and I've had many. I've never had a bad Gibson, Jackson or Squier. But then again I play before I pay and my Custom Shop Jackson Kelly is the only guitar I didn't tweak the setup. Got lucky there I guess.

I believe a proper setup is a part of the guitar buying experience. I wouldn't purchase a guitar with sharp frets unless it was dirt cheap and I could do the work myself.


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[vinnie1971]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I strongly disagree with the sentiment that you shouldn't expect even minimally leveled/crowned frets on a sub-500$ guitar.

In my youth (hate that I even say that phrase...), I had the fortune to have both the free time and the opportunity to try LOT of guitars.
I came across MANY lower-end Gibsons (lower-end meaning sub-3000$ by Gibson standards) that had rectangular frets with no sign of crowning whatsoever and A LOT of Korean or Indonesian-made, sub-500 (heck, sub-350$) guitars with perfectly serviceable frets, not perfect by any stretch of the word but certainly not even remotely bad.

I DO agree that when I buy a guitar I FULLY expect to have it setup to my preference and the frets re-done to those specifications, however I am NEVER gonna buy a guitar I cannot play-test properly to see whether it would be worth the money and trouble to do so.

If you want to see how inexpensive guitars should be made circa 2000+, just check Schecter, Michael Kelly, Washburn, Dean, Yamaha, heck even Squier and Jackson are upping up their game.

Like mentioned already, nowadays guitars are made using so precise machinery that makes them so quickly, there is NO excuse for not making the effort to at least finish them up properly.

My brand new Epiphone Les Paul standard and 20 year old Epiphone Firebird showed no sign of fret level and crowning- the frets being round on both - the firebird I had to level and crown, the Les Paul would benefit from it but it's fine and perfectly playable without- I guess modern fret-wire is more consistent.

My 40 year old El Maya frets were level crowned and polished from the factory but then it was made by Cushin Gakki - we can't expect those standards from sun £500 guitars ;-)


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[bugo]

Re: Just tried a not-so-lovely Epiphone.

I have a 2009 Epiphone Dot. It's a lovely guitar. It looks, sounds and feels great. When I got it, the pickups had been replaced with some Seymour Duncan '59s and a Bigsby had been added. After I got it I changed the truss rod cover and put speed knob on it. The pickups and vibrato were installed by a luthier, and I assume that it was set up professionally but I'm not sure if it was or not. The guitar is of a very high quality and the fit and finish is impeccable. Every time I look at it or play it I'm amazed that Gibson can make such a fine instrument at such a low price and make a profit on it. The word is getting out about these guitars and I'm sure they're siphoning sales away from much more expensive guitars. I expect Gibson to either raise the price on the Dot, decontent it and lower the quality or discontinue it outright. I cannot say enough good things about this guitar.





Here's a video from a guitar shop in the UK comparing the Dot to a Gibson 1958 ES-335 VOS reissue. They were very impressed with the Dot. They clearly thought it was much better than it had any right to be. They seemed nonplussed by the Gibson and they expected it to be good but they were surprised by the quality of the big Epi.

Another Epiphone I played that I really liked was an orange Emperor Swingster hollow jazz box. It felt and sounded wonderful. I wish I had had the money when I played it. I would have brought it home.