Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

[Silence Kid]

I understand the Flyer as a less-adjustable, "budget" Kahler... But as well as any Kahler works, is there any functional/playability difference between the Flyer and the regular/pro flat-mount? Will they both have similar feel/tuning stability? Anything else to know aside from what's on the surface, there?

Thinking of using one in a project; I get that either Kahler can be a headache, but I have a Floyd guitar so want to try on the alternative for a bit...

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

Your first sentence is correct, and it pretty much says all you need to know. Decide what features you need, and pick a model that has them. You can always change out the saddles and/or rollers later if you want something else.

Personally, I find the high adjustability of Kahlers to be their strongest benefit, so I wouldn't even install a model that had reduced adjustability/features.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

Awesome. It's the spongy, smooth movement that interests me most, the G&L Rampage inspires me. I'm fine with more adjustability, but since I'm used to not really being able to optimize spacing etc. with most any other bridge, at this point it's not something I'd feel lost without.

 

[Artie]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

This is interesting. The only Kahler I've ever used is the OEM Flyer on my old MIA Peavey Predator. I don't even use the tremolo part of it. I just love its adjustability. Intonation, string height, and mostly, the fine tuners. (Used with a locking nut.) So, what is thing lacking in adjustability?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

This is interesting. The only Kahler I've ever used is the OEM Flyer on my old MIA Peavey Predator. I don't even use the tremolo part of it. I just love its adjustability. Intonation, string height, and mostly, the fine tuners. (Used with a locking nut.) So, what is thing lacking in adjustability?

IIRC, you can't adjust saddle spacing, and there is some sort of tension control or something missing to control the action of the vibrato. I used to have one, but I don't remember exactly what it lacked beyond that.

FWIW, their hardtail bridge drops right onto the screw holes for a Flyer.

 

[Artie]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

IIRC, you can't adjust saddle spacing

Ok, that's not a biggie. Mine fits the guitar perfectly. But I realize, that could be an issue if you buy it aftermarket for another axe.

. . . and there is some sort of tension control or something missing to control the action of the vibrato.

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but they do sell different tension springs to control that. I have two different sets. And, it's a PITA to swap them, but if you find the set you like, you're good.

FWIW, their hardtail bridge drops right onto the screw holes for a Flyer.

I'd like to check that out. Unfortunately, their website seems to be down. I hope it's just a temporary "glitch".

Artie

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

Kahler ceased trading. The place to get spare parts and, sometimes, complete bridges is http://www.wammiworld.com

The Flyer saddle, viewed sideways on, has an L shape to it. This creates a finite limit on how low the roller saddle can be adjusted compared to a Pro model saddle.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

Ok, that's not a biggie. Mine fits the guitar perfectly. But I realize, that could be an issue if you buy it aftermarket for another axe.



I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but they do sell different tension springs to control that. I have two different sets. And, it's a PITA to swap them, but if you find the set you like, you're good.



I'd like to check that out. Unfortunately, their website seems to be down. I hope it's just a temporary "glitch".

Artie

No, it's not a different spring set that I'm talking about. There is actually some sort of missing external adjustment.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

The Pro has more threaded holes cut into the domed upper surface of the cam. The central one is the spring tension adjuster. The one next to the high E string is for the vibrato arm. There is another one of the same dimensions that accepts the so-called palm pedal.

I vaguely recall that some models had a friction adjuster for the arm.

The more recent Hybrid-X has a lock grub screw through the baseplate to make it behave as a fixed bridge.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

The Pro has more threaded holes cut into the domed upper surface of the cam. The central one is the spring tension adjuster. The one next to the high E string is for the vibrato arm. There is another one of the same dimensions that accepts the so-called palm pedal.

I vaguely recall that some models had a friction adjuster for the arm.

The more recent Hybrid-X has a lock grub screw through the baseplate to make it behave as a fixed bridge.

I am pretty sure the spring tension screw is what I'm remembering. Somebody who really knows Kahlers should pipe in, though, because I have no idea if that is correct.


It's not just the Hybrids that have the blocking screw. The USA models have them too, starting after a certain point. It's not a question of import versus domestic (i.e. 23 vs. 73); it just matters what year the vibrato unit was manufactured.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

I have a Hybrid-X, a Flyer and a stud mount Pro right here. Anybody need photographs?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

I'd like to see them. I was always interested in the different Kahler models, and I always liked the feel of them better than the FR.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

I had an old Carvin once that had a Kahler. i liked the easy feel of it. I once had a Japanese only issue of an 80s Kramer that had a Killer Trem on it. (kahler's Floyd "copy") Worked well. My Japanese Squier strat has a Fender branded Kahler on it. I think it was a System I or something. And since Im drifting slowly away from topic.. I had a US Peavy Guitar that had this HUGE trem system on it. Cant recall what it was. Worked ok, but was a monstrosity

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

Hybrid X on project Charvel Model 4/Model 3 bitsa.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

I play with a pretty heavy hand, so Floyd + Me always means meh. I love the feel of Kahler.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

I understand the Flyer as a less-adjustable, "budget" Kahler... But as well as any Kahler works, is there any functional/playability difference between the Flyer and the regular/pro flat-mount? Will they both have similar feel/tuning stability? Anything else to know aside from what's on the surface, there?

Thinking of using one in a project; I get that either Kahler can be a headache, but I have a Floyd guitar so want to try on the alternative for a bit...

I have a Kahler 2320 Classic (Pro with brass cam & saddles) from '86 that's all original except for the springs and bar, and I've played Hybrids, X-Trems, and Flyers. First and foremost the Flyer is a piece of junk and I've yet to meet one that holds tune worth a s***. Of the others the 2300 Pro & 7300 Hybrid series are the best, and the X-Trems are decent. In terms of how they differ, the 2300 & 7300 are essentially identical with more of the 2300 being hand-machined versus the 7300 being mostly CNC. They both have the hybrid lock. The X-Trem also has the hybrid lock, but it's MIC under contract. If you're going to use a Kahler I recommend a Floyd nut highly, or a properly cut TUSQ-XL nut and locking tuners. The Kahler behind-the-nut clamp sucks.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Kahler Flyer vs. 23/43/73XX

I would have thought the behind-the-nut lock wouldn't work. This was before locking tuners were a thing, and I guess FR owned the design for the regular nut lock. A lock behind the nut would seem to have some serious flaws.