I'm curious about kahlers I've never tried one but have heard different things about them and what I'm getting at is are they easy to setup and do they stay in tune? My original Floyd on my dean dc6 stays in tune well bit it's a pain the ass setup-wise and it gets in the way of my picking so any advice/experience would be greatly appreciated.
Kahler tremolo?
- Thread starter KiD CuDi
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GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Kahler tremolo?
I've been interested in Kahler's too and would like someone to comment on this. I like the idea of using a cam rather than edge that will wear out, and I like the idea of less routing in the guitar (and no need for noisy springs banging around when you're sitting on the couch, playing unplugged). I like the very adjustable string holders too, because it seems like that would make setting the guitar up a much simpler process. I also like the simple locking that the 7300 seems to have . . . twist the hex key and you're a fixed bridge, twist it again and you're a floating trem.
Unfortunately I've never seen a Kahler in a guitar store around here, so I couldn't try any of them out to see if they're good or not.
I've been interested in Kahler's too and would like someone to comment on this. I like the idea of using a cam rather than edge that will wear out, and I like the idea of less routing in the guitar (and no need for noisy springs banging around when you're sitting on the couch, playing unplugged). I like the very adjustable string holders too, because it seems like that would make setting the guitar up a much simpler process. I also like the simple locking that the 7300 seems to have . . . twist the hex key and you're a fixed bridge, twist it again and you're a floating trem.
Unfortunately I've never seen a Kahler in a guitar store around here, so I couldn't try any of them out to see if they're good or not.
Laughing Kookaburra
Active member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
I had a factory installed Kahler on a 1985 Hamer Scarab II. I bought this gtr in the mid 90s. It had a difficult time returning to zero, despite my attempts to rememdy the situation. I had a friend in a machine shop lock it up w/a couple of machine screws. I'm not a whammy guy, so, no prob. The gtr was a steal pricewise.
A few yrs later I read an article in Vintage Guitar mag that there were some Kahlers in the 80s that were known for the very issue I had. So, I would check that out if you're going to buy, otherwise, it seems they have a good rep.
I had a factory installed Kahler on a 1985 Hamer Scarab II. I bought this gtr in the mid 90s. It had a difficult time returning to zero, despite my attempts to rememdy the situation. I had a friend in a machine shop lock it up w/a couple of machine screws. I'm not a whammy guy, so, no prob. The gtr was a steal pricewise.
A few yrs later I read an article in Vintage Guitar mag that there were some Kahlers in the 80s that were known for the very issue I had. So, I would check that out if you're going to buy, otherwise, it seems they have a good rep.
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breakdanceattiffanys
New member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
I think the current ones look more stable and have some tasty features, but for $200+ new, it had better be the most bulletproof best bridge ever made, replace it's own strings, and never go out of tune on me. EVER! :laughing:
I think the current ones look more stable and have some tasty features, but for $200+ new, it had better be the most bulletproof best bridge ever made, replace it's own strings, and never go out of tune on me. EVER! :laughing:
Vincent Vespa
New member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
They feel really nice. They're really smooth. But I, too, have experienced that problem with returning to zero.
That, and the strings really enjoy breaking on kahlers. There's a way to fix that (soldering the base of the strings) but I'm too lazy to do it.
They feel really nice. They're really smooth. But I, too, have experienced that problem with returning to zero.
That, and the strings really enjoy breaking on kahlers. There's a way to fix that (soldering the base of the strings) but I'm too lazy to do it.
GinoAmes
New member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
I have a Kahler on my #1 guitar and love it! The one I have is the Hybrid model that has a set screw so it can be turned into a fixed bridge.(Great when you are changing strings)
It is smooth as can be and I have no probrem with tunning. On lighter strings they will snap the high E at the ball. The easy fix is to feed the string through the ball end a few time to reinforce it,once you do that they do not break! I highly recommend Kahlers, I got my first one in '89 as my graduation gift. As a plus if you sign up on their web site you are entered to win one each month....in fact thats how I got my most recent one!
I have a Kahler on my #1 guitar and love it! The one I have is the Hybrid model that has a set screw so it can be turned into a fixed bridge.(Great when you are changing strings)
It is smooth as can be and I have no probrem with tunning. On lighter strings they will snap the high E at the ball. The easy fix is to feed the string through the ball end a few time to reinforce it,once you do that they do not break! I highly recommend Kahlers, I got my first one in '89 as my graduation gift. As a plus if you sign up on their web site you are entered to win one each month....in fact thats how I got my most recent one!
fretburner
Well-known member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
It works for Kerry King.
It works for Kerry King.
King IzzO)))
Ultimate Kitten Puncher
Re: Kahler tremolo?
I had one in a Gibson XPL a long, long time ago, didn't give me any trouble at all. I liked the feel of FR better though, but I was playing shredder guitars all the time then. I don't even have a trem guitar anymore, I think if I get one I want a Kahler.
I had one in a Gibson XPL a long, long time ago, didn't give me any trouble at all. I liked the feel of FR better though, but I was playing shredder guitars all the time then. I don't even have a trem guitar anymore, I think if I get one I want a Kahler.
Re: Kahler tremolo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1eiMZ5nUk
This guy does a comparison of Floyd Vs Kahler.
Some benefits are that the kahler still uses ball ends, you don't cut them off.
Not much of a benefit really.
You can also "Block" the Kahler with a set screw towards the rear of the guitar, very cool.
Also, they stick, at least in the demostration on youtube. Once you dive you have to pull up past zero to get the string in tune or it'll come back flat.
There are still springs with the Kahler, so you may get some ringing/resonance from that, but you'd be harder pressed to mute it with cotton or whatever.
The other factor for Kahler is the behind the nut lock system. You would still need a regular nut for the strings to break over, the Floyd nut is much better.
+1 for that tremstopper that Mattt mentioned. Its not as secure as the Kahler lock, but It does the job well enough for floyds to go to drop D and when you are changing strings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy1eiMZ5nUk
This guy does a comparison of Floyd Vs Kahler.
Some benefits are that the kahler still uses ball ends, you don't cut them off.
Not much of a benefit really.
You can also "Block" the Kahler with a set screw towards the rear of the guitar, very cool.
Also, they stick, at least in the demostration on youtube. Once you dive you have to pull up past zero to get the string in tune or it'll come back flat.
There are still springs with the Kahler, so you may get some ringing/resonance from that, but you'd be harder pressed to mute it with cotton or whatever.
The other factor for Kahler is the behind the nut lock system. You would still need a regular nut for the strings to break over, the Floyd nut is much better.
+1 for that tremstopper that Mattt mentioned. Its not as secure as the Kahler lock, but It does the job well enough for floyds to go to drop D and when you are changing strings.
J
Jessie Sammler
Guest
Peter Crossley
Active member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
I have put Kahlers on a couple of my builds.
This is my estimation of their worth, only mine, I know some people love em.
I used the Kahler Hybrid trem
The spring inside is no good if you want to use what Kahler call heavy strings. I did a bit of research into what they considered heavy guage, and it turns out they say 10's are heavy??? go figure.
They do produce a heavier spring, which helps alleviate a few return to zero problems, but not all.
The bridge is big and HEAVY, This does not really translate into any usable tone bonuses.
They are relatively easy to fit, the rout is only onto the top of the body.
I found a way to set the spring, which works OK for me.
First screw in the little bridge locking screw at the rear of the bridge. The gap that the screw fits into is slightly oversize, so you tune up, and then adjust the spring so that the bridge floats between the top and botton of the screw gap. It is a bit of mucking about, but it works.
General impressions...
The intonation of a Kahler is a PITA. the allen screws that fix the slide are directly under the string, and there is no srew adjustment of the slide, you have to get a small bladed screwdriver and jemmy it back or forward to get intonation, as such it is mediocre in that department.
The saddle heigh adjustment screw is also directly under the string. so there has been a bit of a design glitch in that whole area.
I recently asked my clients with this bridges how they found them, ALL of them now have the tremolo locked down with the screw at the rear. So that might or might not say something.
ALL tremolo's are a flawed design. All of them.
Kahlers, Floyds, wilkinsons etc have tried to address this problem by trying to fix Leo's original design (flawed).
This constitutes the much loved phrase "Polishing a Turd"
They all rely on the balance of the strings in conterpoint with the springs of the trem.
Until someone comes up with a design that allows the strings to be independant of this equation, then ALL tremolo's are a flawed design, based on first principles.
And yes, I have a design in my head, but I need to talk to a switched on metal fabrication dude before it gets out there.
upshot.....
Get a fixed bridge...
no just joking,
The best tremolo I have come across (still flawed, mind) is the NOS PRS trem unit by MannMade Industries.
I believe these guys were the original suppliers to PRS, before PRS got really big.
These are good, the whole tremolo is milled from a single block of steel, not just the string block, thats the top and everything.
But they are not cheap.
So there you go, my PERSONAL views on trems and the Kahler in particular.
I have put Kahlers on a couple of my builds.
This is my estimation of their worth, only mine, I know some people love em.
I used the Kahler Hybrid trem
The spring inside is no good if you want to use what Kahler call heavy strings. I did a bit of research into what they considered heavy guage, and it turns out they say 10's are heavy??? go figure.
They do produce a heavier spring, which helps alleviate a few return to zero problems, but not all.
The bridge is big and HEAVY, This does not really translate into any usable tone bonuses.
They are relatively easy to fit, the rout is only onto the top of the body.
I found a way to set the spring, which works OK for me.
First screw in the little bridge locking screw at the rear of the bridge. The gap that the screw fits into is slightly oversize, so you tune up, and then adjust the spring so that the bridge floats between the top and botton of the screw gap. It is a bit of mucking about, but it works.
General impressions...
The intonation of a Kahler is a PITA. the allen screws that fix the slide are directly under the string, and there is no srew adjustment of the slide, you have to get a small bladed screwdriver and jemmy it back or forward to get intonation, as such it is mediocre in that department.
The saddle heigh adjustment screw is also directly under the string. so there has been a bit of a design glitch in that whole area.
I recently asked my clients with this bridges how they found them, ALL of them now have the tremolo locked down with the screw at the rear. So that might or might not say something.
ALL tremolo's are a flawed design. All of them.
Kahlers, Floyds, wilkinsons etc have tried to address this problem by trying to fix Leo's original design (flawed).
This constitutes the much loved phrase "Polishing a Turd"
They all rely on the balance of the strings in conterpoint with the springs of the trem.
Until someone comes up with a design that allows the strings to be independant of this equation, then ALL tremolo's are a flawed design, based on first principles.
And yes, I have a design in my head, but I need to talk to a switched on metal fabrication dude before it gets out there.
upshot.....
Get a fixed bridge...
no just joking,
The best tremolo I have come across (still flawed, mind) is the NOS PRS trem unit by MannMade Industries.
I believe these guys were the original suppliers to PRS, before PRS got really big.
These are good, the whole tremolo is milled from a single block of steel, not just the string block, thats the top and everything.
But they are not cheap.
So there you go, my PERSONAL views on trems and the Kahler in particular.
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F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Kahler tremolo?
+1 on most of what PC posted.
Fitted a Kahler to a 1983 "two knob" American Standard Stratocaster. Not much routing required that time!
Fitted a Kahler Flyer to a Peavey T-60. Had to recess it. Not pretty. The Flyer was the "economy" model. IMO, its saddles were a compromise too far.
Currently have a bespoke ash ST body with a Kahler Hybrid awaiting a neck. The important thing about this body is that the neck pocket has been routed to give the correct neck pitch to suit the Kahler.
Finally, PC, I hope that you are right about the one-piece PRS vibrato. That is what appears to be on my 1993 Custom.
+1 on most of what PC posted.
Fitted a Kahler to a 1983 "two knob" American Standard Stratocaster. Not much routing required that time!
Fitted a Kahler Flyer to a Peavey T-60. Had to recess it. Not pretty. The Flyer was the "economy" model. IMO, its saddles were a compromise too far.
Currently have a bespoke ash ST body with a Kahler Hybrid awaiting a neck. The important thing about this body is that the neck pocket has been routed to give the correct neck pitch to suit the Kahler.
Finally, PC, I hope that you are right about the one-piece PRS vibrato. That is what appears to be on my 1993 Custom.
alteredbeast
New member
Re: Kahler tremolo?
i was OFR or die for many years, things changed, guitars came, guitars went, now i have two kahler 2315 equipped guitars. i love them personally. there was a period of 2 years when i didnt even touch a floyd. and when i went back, i guess i had grown so accustomed to the kahler, that the floyd felt way too stiff upon first play. i still have love for OFR, but not that "licensed by" BS. plus the kahler locks without having to unscrew the backplate and stick a contraption in it.
i was OFR or die for many years, things changed, guitars came, guitars went, now i have two kahler 2315 equipped guitars. i love them personally. there was a period of 2 years when i didnt even touch a floyd. and when i went back, i guess i had grown so accustomed to the kahler, that the floyd felt way too stiff upon first play. i still have love for OFR, but not that "licensed by" BS. plus the kahler locks without having to unscrew the backplate and stick a contraption in it.
