Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

[NegativeEase]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

I've probably brought this up before, but have you seen the Andertons video where they compare Rob's Marshall and (I think) some Fender combo to a Kemper? Lee and Rob are in the main room with a guitar, Rabea is in the other room switching between the Kemper and the tube amps. They warn you when to close and open your eyes when Rabea is switching them, so you can watch it from Rob and Lee's perspective.

At first, both of them seem very certain when they're hearing tubes or digital, but as it goes on, they wind up doing exactly as you described, describing the tendencies of each when they're hearing the other. It's a really fun video if you haven't seen it.

Honestly, I thought they were easy to tell apart, however they were in the room with the cabinets rattling and getting a different experience -but from the Mics POV -it was pretty easy, IN FACT most of their A/B demos are easy if you are familiar with the product to know what to listen for.

That doesn't change the fact that even if you can tell the difference, doesn't mean both don't sound good OR that an uneducated audience would even care or know the difference.

 

[devastone]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

If I had a nickel for every artist I know who's actual small stage rig is off to the side out of sight, and the company that gives them money and product's giant rig is featured on stage.

Like in the 80s when Lynch had a Randall RG80 on a folding chair and mic'd behind his wall of Marshall amps?

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Like in the 80s when Lynch had a Randall RG80 on a folding chair and mic'd behind his wall of Marshall amps?

Exactly!

I think Slayer's rigs were the most bogus I've ever seen.

 

[blind1]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Honestly, I thought they were easy to tell apart, however they were in the room with the cabinets rattling and getting a different experience -but from the Mics POV -it was pretty easy, IN FACT most of their A/B demos are easy if you are familiar with the product to know what to listen for.

That doesn't change the fact that even if you can tell the difference, doesn't mean both don't sound good OR that an uneducated audience would even care or know the difference.

Agreed, it isn't that hard to tell them apart especially when you know what they sound like anyway.

I disagree with this sentiment that the audience doesn't know or care. They may not have the vocabulary or ability to describe verbally what they hear in a band's sound; however, I do think they can subconsciously tell the difference. It's the difference between a filled dance floor or an empty one; the difference between selling lots of drinks or not; the difference between building a following or not. Maybe I'm crazy, but this just seems to be my experience when going out.

One of the best bands in my local area has several musicians and they all play on quality gear. It makes a difference. The guitarist, for example, plays on a Tweed Deluxe and damn does he make that thing sound good. They always pack the dance floor.

Compared to some group I saw recently that was clearly using rack mounted modeling units, they had a cheap, artificial sound and literally nobody on the dance floor. (Causation =/= correlation, but I find it hard to explain otherwise). In fact, most people were as far away from them as possible with their obnoxious band sound.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Exactly!

I think Slayer's rigs were the most bogus I've ever seen.

What was behind their curtain?

(fitting example, as Gary Holt is a Kemper user)

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

There's something to the modeller's missing something live...

They lack grit/balls..

Also there's tone's they just don't do well. (massive fat organic doom for instance..). It's like they're geared towards a modern plastic sound (metalcore/deathcore). Even the so called "sublime" shred tones are mostly plastic-y Satriani/Petrucci (or some close variant of) all the way. The one time I played through an Axe-Fx II (very underwhelming) ..everything had that over-sanitized plastic sheen to it & the 'pant leg flapping" aspect was pretty much non-existent.

 

[Dark Order Lord]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Slayer live Rig:

https://youtu.be/GlvaYmvyDmk

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

There's something to the modeller's missing something live...

They lack grit/balls..

Also there's tone's they just don't do well. (massive fat organic doom for instance..). It's like they're geared towards a modern plastic sound (metalcore/deathcore). Even the so called "sublime" shred tones are mostly plastic-y Satriani/Petrucci (or some close variant of) all the way. The one time I played through an Axe-Fx II (very underwhelming) ..everything had that over-sanitized plastic sheen to it & the 'pant leg flapping" aspect was pretty much non-existent.

It's 100% the speakers and the fact it's recreating the micced sound. PA speakers won't sound like a wall of full stacks shaking and reverberating.

Sent from my BlackBerry using Tapatalk

 

[Aceman]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Agreed, it isn't that hard to tell them apart especially when you know what they sound like anyway.

I disagree with this sentiment that the audience doesn't know or care. They may not have the vocabulary or ability to describe verbally what they hear in a band's sound; however, I do think they can subconsciously tell the difference. It's the difference between a filled dance floor or an empty one; the difference between selling lots of drinks or not; the difference between building a following or not. Maybe I'm crazy, but this just seems to be my experience when going out.

One of the best bands in my local area has several musicians and they all play on quality gear. It makes a difference. The guitarist, for example, plays on a Tweed Deluxe and damn does he make that thing sound good. They always pack the dance floor.

Compared to some group I saw recently that was clearly using rack mounted modeling units, they had a cheap, artificial sound and literally nobody on the dance floor. (Causation =/= correlation, but I find it hard to explain otherwise). In fact, most people were as far away from them as possible with their obnoxious band sound.

Best Band = Has been around a while. They play what the dance crowd wants. They have been successful and thus have great gear.
"Some" group = New band, playing what "They" want. Gear not even a factor.

The set list, how tightly the band plays, and the PA-Soundguy ALL have more to do with the dance factor than any amp; Solid State, Digital, Hybrid, or Tube. If you doin't believe that - you have no idea about who you are playing or or what they want.

And sometimes, you gotta say WTF! As Henry ford put it, "If I asked people what they wanted, they would have asked for faster Horses"

Musicians go "I LOVE this song - it's AWESOME!!!!"
People Go "I wonder if they are gonna play that Katy Perry song?"

Doesn't matter where we go - someone will ask "Can you guys play something by the Beatles/Janis Joplin/Led Zeppelin". And they don't mean the Motley/HAgar/Great white versions of it. People who wan to dance want dance music. And, as we witnessed last night, that one (literally) one person who danced to Fantasy / Aldo Nova because that individual song is their jam.

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

What was behind their curtain?

(fitting example, as Gary Holt is a Kemper user)

I don't know about now, but in the 90s it was good Ole JCM 800 and some rack procs into a single mic'd cab, but onstage they had 12 4x12 cabs and several fake heads.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

There's something to the modeller's missing something live...

They lack grit/balls..

Balls and grit are measles terms that mean the players who use them don't set the bass/mids and gain properly on the right model.

So.....that comment meant nothing.

 

[blind1]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

What was behind their curtain?

(fitting example, as Gary Holt is a Kemper user)

I'm calling BS on this and other claims about fake rigs. It may occasionally happen, but I doubt its as pervasive as some of you suggest. Or, you just have no nickels in your pocket.

I do know that bands will put a wall of Marshall cabs up but only actually use one. As somebody else linked, there is no credible source online that suggests Slayer's guitarists use Kempers. In fact, every source suggests they use Marshall amps on stage. I'll kindly wait for your sources to disprove that.

I'm sorry some folks feel so passionately about defending their stance here and appear to be offended based on responses. The reality: public appreciation for live bands has diminished. Fact: working musicians want the easy way out - modelers, etc., but don't sound good. You think it's "good enough". Well, "good enough" makes the public less appreciative of the art. So a redundant cycle it is. Also, I'm not denying that the set list, group cohesion, and skill of sound engineers aren't factors of a good show. I'm just saying, every aspect of it matters. Nothing can be left to chance or "just good enough". Until we get past that mindset, we'll be stuck here wondering why the art of guitar is fading away.

 

[chadd]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Balls and grit are measles terms that mean the players who use them don't set the bass/mids and gain properly on the right model.

So.....that comment meant nothing.

Kinda like the "mesa sucks" syndrome where people set their tone with their eyes (on the numbers) and not with their ears

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

I do know that bands will put a wall of Marshall cabs up but only actually use one. As somebody else linked, there is no credible source online that suggests Slayer's guitarists use Kempers. In fact, every source suggests they use Marshall amps on stage. I'll kindly wait for your sources to disprove that.

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21558-a-lesson-in-violence-exodus-gary-holt-lee-altus?page=2

Re-read what I said: Gary Holt is a Kemper user.
What I did NOT say: Slayer uses Kempers.

Here's the relevant section of the Premier Guitar interview I posted the link to with Gary and Lee Altus (the other dude in Exodus). This is from a few years ago, regarding when they recorded and toured for Blood In Blood Out.

What about amps?

Holt: I used the Kemper Profiler on everything on the new album. It’s the first time I’ve recorded with it, though I’ve had one for a while. When I got mine they didn’t even have the rack models yet. I’ve got profiles of my modded Marshalls and Engls all in there. I just plugged it in and let it rip.

Altus: When we started, I remember having Marshalls we would modify, and it was like, “How many distortion boxes can we plug in to get any kind of tone out of it?” Now you basically have a computer chip that does that. When we go somewhere like South America or do a fly-in show, no matter how much you tell them exactly what you want, you know you’re not going to get it. And even if you do, you don’t know what kind of shape it’s in—the tubes could be shot. This eliminates that. You always bring your tone with you.

Are your old amps collecting dust?

Altus: I don’t know what to do with the heads I’ve collected over the years. I put everything into the Kemper, and all the sounds are there. There are certain amps, like the Mesa/Boogie Mark III that they don’t make anymore, or my specially modified Marshall JCM800, that I’m definitely hanging on to, but for the rest it’s like, “I don’t really need you. Gotta let you go.”

Holt: My modded Marshalls are retiring. Fortunately, I’ve got a perfect profile of them now. If we’re flying into a gig, Lee and I just take the Kemper. We run direct out front when we use it, but I go through cabs, too, because I need some interaction with speakers. I have some random nameless cabs with really great speakers: Celestion Vintage 30s.
Altus: I’ll use any cab. It doesn’t really matter.

I'm sorry some folks feel so passionately about defending their stance here and appear to be offended based on responses...

I hope you see how this applies equally to the modeling fans and the tube guys.

 

[OLDERBUDWISER]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

I want to clarify my above comment about having a good tone for my sake....
I don’t want anyone to think that when we gig it’s all about my tone....
It’s absolutely about putting on a show.
We are all over the stage, interacting with each other and the crowd. The singer is out in the audience doing his thing...if the stage has risers we are up on them playing solos etc....
In no way are we playing obscure songs that nobody knows. Every song we play is or was a radio hit on some level.
None of that is lost on me.
All I was trying to say is that I need good tone for me...and by having that, it translates into good tone for the audience and a good overall band sound.
That’s win-win.
I’m not ok with having a “good enough” tone for a bar full of people that probably don’t know any better anyway. Hell, most people (non musicians) couldn’t tell the difference between a guitar and a bass in a mix anyway.

Sounds like pride in your craft, way it should be

 

[OLDERBUDWISER]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Quoting myself to add that this may not even be Kemper's fault -it could have been damaged in shipping, damaged in storage, damage when you first got it.

Point is, Kemper needs to be given a chance to assess remotely or shipped back for warranty evaluation.

Ya'll are making me defend a modeling amp company :lmao:

I guess this is what happens when you are objective and reasonable.

Nah, you are OK. Those are great traits, our society could use way more of that

 

[OLDERBUDWISER]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

I use a modeler but I'm not butt hurt, I'm way too ADD to read that whole thing.

I get the gist of your post, you like tube amps and think modelers are garbage (I think that sums it up). I'm glad you use what works best for you.

Obviously since he isnt American he is deluded in his grandeur, not one reason for that insult. WTH

 

[LLL]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

If you know what you're doing, understand the various concepts involved and know your goal, tweaking tone won't take up a lot of time.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Obviously since he isnt American he is deluded in his grandeur, not one reason for that insult. WTH

Yeah....I bit my tongue when I read that.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Balls and grit are measles terms that mean the players who use them don't set the bass/mids and gain properly on the right model.

So.....that comment meant nothing.

Those players are'nt me..

If nothing else..^^ that's ballsy (live clip) ..murky too maybe ..& sludgy perhaps ..but certainly ballsy.

And here's the punchline ..it came from my 15 watt $150 Goldea TUBE head (tucked behind the Marshall stack :laugh2: )

Now I may have missed one of the gadzilion options/input/outputs/mic placements/angles etc on the Axe FX that I messed with practically the whole day (while it's owner helped me dial it in) ..but I could'nt get it to sound (my definition of..) Ballsy ..no matter what. That apart, I did not like how it sounded & FELT anyway...

Which is why I will personally stick with tube/SS :bigthumb:

I mean yeah...when it comes to heavy ****..I hear a lot of how Kempers/Axe-Fx sound their best through a nice TUBE power amp...and that's from Axe-Fx / Kemper metal guys.. wonder why that is?? :scratchch

Apart from revealing apparent shortcomings (as I decribed in my earlier post) Way I look at it that sort of defeats the purpose of a compact rig too..