Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Agreed, it isn't that hard to tell them apart especially when you know what they sound like anyway.

I disagree with this sentiment that the audience doesn't know or care. They may not have the vocabulary or ability to describe verbally what they hear in a band's sound; however, I do think they can subconsciously tell the difference. It's the difference between a filled dance floor or an empty one; the difference between selling lots of drinks or not; the difference between building a following or not. Maybe I'm crazy, but this just seems to be my experience when going out.

One of the best bands in my local area has several musicians and they all play on quality gear. It makes a difference. The guitarist, for example, plays on a Tweed Deluxe and damn does he make that thing sound good. They always pack the dance floor.

Compared to some group I saw recently that was clearly using rack mounted modeling units, they had a cheap, artificial sound and literally nobody on the dance floor. (Causation =/= correlation, but I find it hard to explain otherwise). In fact, most people were as far away from them as possible with their obnoxious band sound.

The dance floor is empty cause the bands suck or play songs the audience don't want to hear. I watch bands for their music not the tone, which is the last thing I care about.

Generally speaking, in a live situation the sound is crap for whatever reason; too close to the speaker, poor acoutics, too many drunks showing their boobs, etc. So much with your quality Plexis, 5150s, Mesas, JCM 800s etc.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Generally speaking, in a live situation the sound is crap for whatever reason; too close to the speaker, poor acoutics, too many drunks showing their boobs, etc. So much with your quality Plexis, 5150s, Mesas, JCM 800s etc.

Just saw the Tedeschi Trucks Band. Due to crappy design of the venue and it being too loud, it was an echoey mess. Neither the army of tubes or Derek being one of the best musicians ever (same goes for Susan and their incredible band) could overcome that.

Took my oldest son to see Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie the week before. Nothing but tubes for any of them, and the sound was horrendous at that, too. Saw Ghost a few years before, they use modelers, and it sounded great.

 

[Dark Order Lord]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Obviously since he isnt American he is deluded in his grandeur, not one reason for that insult. WTH

You talking about me mate? If you are, then.... Yeah, Nah.

 

[Dark Order Lord]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

You see? What I said in my huge post about Kemper's and all Modellers being in the same 'iphone' syndrome? Once again I am proven right. They have just released the 'Kemper Stage'.....

As I said, now all the Kemper fanboys, like the Axefx fanboys did with the II to get the III, will be dumping their once $3500-$4500 original Kempers, selling them cheap to go and blow another $4500 to get the Kemper Stage! :flush

"Oh, I don't ever have to buy tubes again....." Blah blah, but you want to fork out plata for the new Kemper computer becaue your betting it's sound better than the original.

Meanwhile I keep on rockin and rolling with my Marshall TSL100, just trying out different cocktails of valves out...... Awesome.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Trying out endless variations of tubes is no different than upgrading a modeler. If you never settle on something you like and keep looking for 'better', you are just on a cycle of a different sort. Ideally, just buy the amp you like and spend your time playing and recording.

 

[Dahla]

Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

You see? What I said in my huge post about Kemper's and all Modellers being in the same 'iphone' syndrome? Once again I am proven right. They have just released the 'Kemper Stage'.....

As I said, now all the Kemper fanboys, like the Axefx fanboys did with the II to get the III, will be dumping their once $3500-$4500 original Kempers, selling them cheap to go and blow another $4500 to get the Kemper Stage! :flush

"Oh, I don't ever have to buy tubes again....." Blah blah, but you want to fork out plata for the new Kemper computer becaue your betting it's sound better than the original.

Meanwhile I keep on rockin and rolling with my Marshall TSL100, just trying out different cocktails of valves out...... Awesome.

You realise that the Kemper stage is just a form factor? A form factor user have been bugging Kemper for for years. Hardware is exactly the same across the entire range. Now you have another choice, if floor models is your thing (and not just toaster or rack).

Not exactly like some other companies that leave/discontinue models to bring out version III is it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Seriously...if you think a lot of "tube" fans haven't dumped their perfectly fine older gear for the latest and greatest tube models at some point, you're kidding yourself. Someone's buying those $3K Marshalls and it isn't your average high schooler who just picked up the guitar!

Plus, if you're regularly swapping tubes, pedals, speakers, etc, looking for a "better" sound, then you're giving in to the same follies being claimed of Kemper fans.

Pick your poison and stick with it. Stop assuming that you know the "secret" to tone and no one else does. People who like modelers/profilers/solid state amps are not a lower form of life and neither are people who stand by tubes. Good music has been made with all.

Most of what has been said in this thread is pure rubbish from a real world standpoint. I know the arguments will go on, but there's no point to the black and white way of looking at things...the fruit of life exists in the gray areas in between

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Well said^^^

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Seriously...if you think a lot of "tube" fans haven't dumped their perfectly fine older gear for the latest and greatest tube models at some point, you're kidding yourself. Someone's buying those $3K Marshalls and it isn't your average high schooler who just picked up the guitar!

Plus, if you're regularly swapping tubes, pedals, speakers, etc, looking for a "better" sound, then you're giving in to the same follies being claimed of Kemper fans.

Pick your poison and stick with it. Stop assuming that you know the "secret" to tone and no one else does. People who like modelers/profilers/solid state amps are not a lower form of life and neither are people who stand by tubes. Good music has been made with all.

Most of what has been said in this thread is pure rubbish from a real world standpoint. I know the arguments will go on, but there's no point to the black and white way of looking at things...the fruit of life exists in the gray areas in between

Or better yet, buy a Yamaha Pacifica, a behringer tube screamer, and a Pignose amp and never think about gear ever again -BUT use that time to shred so much harder than anyone else that you become the master with your **** rig and ample time.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

What we’ve learned so far:

-All the pros using modelers are wrong
-Android users buy one phone and never get a new one
-Kemper Profilers cost $4500
-Tube amp users never get defensive of their amp choices
-If you cant find your tone immediately, you’re incompetent
-Early 20th century technology is the answer for everyone
-Using a Tweed Fender will make people come see your band

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

What we’ve learned so far:

-All the pros using modelers are wrong
-Android users buy one phone and never get a new one
-Kemper Profilers cost $4500
-Tube amp users never get defensive of their amp choices
-If you cant find your tone immediately, you’re incompetent
-Early 20th century technology is the answer for everyone
-Using a Tweed Fender will make people come see your band

I was unable to decipher this response.... can you send this to me in cursive on parchment via US mail in the continental english dialect? thanks

 

[devastone]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

I was unable to decipher this response.... can you send this to me in cursive on parchment via US mail in the continental english dialect? thanks

Written with an iPen XXI

 

[justFred]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Seriously...if you think a lot of "tube" fans haven't dumped their perfectly fine older gear for the latest and greatest tube models at some point, you're kidding yourself. Someone's buying those $3K Marshalls and it isn't your average high schooler who just picked up the guitar!

Plus, if you're regularly swapping tubes, pedals, speakers, etc, looking for a "better" sound, then you're giving in to the same follies being claimed of Kemper fans.

Pick your poison and stick with it. Stop assuming that you know the "secret" to tone and no one else does. People who like modelers/profilers/solid state amps are not a lower form of life and neither are people who stand by tubes. Good music has been made with all.

Most of what has been said in this thread is pure rubbish from a real world standpoint. I know the arguments will go on, but there's no point to the black and white way of looking at things...the fruit of life exists in the gray areas in between

people argue about what tennis shoes are the best; what shoe laces; what jeans; what strings; what fishing pole; what tooth picks; what chop sticks....get over it...people argue over anything and everything...at least this complex subject has provided interesting perspectives and useful info...argue on brothers, argue against the dying of the light....

 

[LLL]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Seriously...if you think a lot of "tube" fans haven't dumped their perfectly fine older gear for the latest and greatest tube models at some point, you're kidding yourself.

Exactly. They were dumping their Plexis for the latest rackmount crap in the 80's.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

get over it...people argue over anything and everything...

I stated in my response that the arguments would certainly continue. However, just like the other examples you mentioned, they do absolutely nothing to:

a) change people's opinions
b) help you become a better player

 

[Dark Order Lord]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

Seriously...if you think a lot of "tube" fans haven't dumped their perfectly fine older gear for the latest and greatest tube models at some point, you're kidding yourself. Someone's buying those $3K Marshalls and it isn't your average high schooler who just picked up the guitar!

Plus, if you're regularly swapping tubes, pedals, speakers, etc, looking for a "better" sound, then you're giving in to the same follies being claimed of Kemper fans.

Pick your poison and stick with it. Stop assuming that you know the "secret" to tone and no one else does. People who like modelers/profilers/solid state amps are not a lower form of life and neither are people who stand by tubes. Good music has been made with all.

Most of what has been said in this thread is pure rubbish from a real world standpoint. I know the arguments will go on, but there's no point to the black and white way of looking at things...the fruit of life exists in the gray areas in between

And then, in the 90's they woke up. You have no idea how many customer came into my shop, Guitar Crazy (Coogee) buying up on valve heads, Combos and trying to sell the rack mounted units, because of the sound, not because of convenience.

Some people mis interpret me with my post because they don't read them thoroughly enough and make fine counter points.

I NEVER said that Amp Modeler users are low life or idiots. I DID say that if you like your Kemper (etc) and are happy with its sounds, then good on ya, in other words, more power to you.

I mearly pointed out my EXPERIENCES with Kempers, and why they fail me, I hate propaganda hype about a technology that claims to 'Profile amps' when it only profiles a signal chain, to a certain extent.

To the dude that says he saw bands with valve amps sound terrible, and a band with modelers sound great, I don't doubt him. My experience has been the complete opposite, 6 times now with just the Kemper. I have not added my experience with LIne6 Helix, ATOMIC AMPLIFIER and Bias Grid.

My ear don't lie. Simple.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

>Rackmounts
>Convenience

Yes. I'm sure a half stack + pedalboard is so much less convenient than a refrigerator sized rack full of buttons the average musician couldn't care to understand.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

 

[Sirion]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

>Rackmounts
>Convenience

Yes. I'm sure a half stack + pedalboard is so much less convenient than a refrigerator sized rack full of buttons the average musician couldn't care to understand.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

Seriously, though, as somebody who has run both, I've found each to have their pros and cons when it comes to practicality. If you want to do one of the things that racks do the best with a pedalboard setup, you're in for quite a ride! Parallell routing is the big one, but even running something in the effects loop feels like a dream in a rack-based rig.

The big difference is that most racks demand that you do your homework, and I'd wager that most musicians become musicians precisely because they don't want to do that!

EDIT: How could I forget stereo setups? That is so much easier with most rack rigs!

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

To the dude that says he saw bands with valve amps sound terrible, and a band with modelers sound great, I don't doubt him. My experience has been the complete opposite, 6 times now with just the Kemper. I have not added my experience with LIne6 Helix, ATOMIC AMPLIFIER and Bias Grid.

My ear don't lie. Simple.

Got to go see Dhani Harrison & ELO last night. My company rents a suite in the hockey arena where they played. Dhani Harrison, who I'd never heard prior, sounded surprisingly good. It was kind of dark, moody prog rocky stuff, lots of heavy guitars, aggressive bass, a keyboard player, and sparse, echoey drums. Still have distinct hooks (musical and lyrical) of his in my head.

I hear ELO songs approximately 95,000 times a day on the radio station we play at work. I'm not really a big fan, but they're obviously a good band. ELO had what looked like half a dozen people in the sound/lighting control area. It was clearly an extremely expensive production, including two cellos and a violin. Aside from groaning at one of my most hated songs ("Don't Bring Me Down"), my memory of ELO is the super cool laser show and saying to one of my friends, "This would sound a lot better if they weren't twice as loud as the opening band."

I just looked up and found that Dhani uses a Twin reissue live, though he records with sims. He and his band sounded great. It was a hockey arena, so I won't pretend that it sounded perfect, but apparently if you play at the appropriate volume, even people sitting halfway up won't get lost in an echoey mess. ELO had myriad combo amps that looked like Vox, and it was a mess.

I've been to three big shows in the last couple weeks. Everyone was using a tube amp. Of the 7 bands I saw, one of them sounded good, and I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that the good sounding one was a son of a Beatle

My ears also don't lie. Playing at an appropriate volume for your venue makes WAY more difference than your amp's guts. Simple.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Kemper Profiler: Never been more disappointed in a purchase

The funny thing about the way this thread shifted is that no one is claiming tube amps don't sound great. For the most part, both profilers and modelers are attempting to recreate/profile the sound and response of tube amps. No one is shaming those who desire to continue using tube amps or believe they sound "better", which means something different to everyone.

I simply take issue with some of the more blanketed assumptions that are being made...that Kempers always sound bad in a live setting, that modelers can't replace tubes in the ears of the general public, that digital gets lost in a mix, etc. There's SO much proof to the contrary for nearly every point made in this thread, on both sides.

Like what you like, love what you love, play what you want to play.

I can make a Marshall and a Kemper sound equally terrible if I don't spend time to dial either in correctly and, even then, I'd be at the mercy of many other factors playing live. Live settings are as distinct as fingerprints and far more complex when it comes to size, acoustics, sound guys, etc.

Heck, even as an audience member, where you are in a room or arena can totally change your "tone" experience and that rig that ultimately sounded like "crap" when you heard it may have sounded epic in the next venue!