Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

[TwelveGauge-GT]

So yeah, my Laney AOR 50 needs a new set of tubes. It's had the same set since I bought it (second hand) and they really are starting to sound terrible, hehe.

The amp takes 2 EL34s and 4 12AX7s, pretty standard for a 50 really.

I was wondering which to get as I don't have any experience in this area. Obviously I want to get good ones but I need guidance as to the best manufacturers.

I could just go ahead and get these or these but I wanted some opinions.

I've also been having a look over at tube-shop.com and wouldn't mind ordering seperate tubes from there or ebay shops.

Thanks!


Edit:
Also, will the filter capacitors likely need to be replaced? Are they the blue cylindrical things sitting vertically in the chassis?
If so, where would I buy replacements?

 

[mustaine-who?]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

First..decide what you like and dis-like about your amp's sound. Is it thin? To trebbly? Too dark? Too spongy?

Second is to decide where to buy from. From your links, I assume you're in the UK? I would advise you to not let that be your overwhelming factor in deciding where to buy tubes from. I think that both www.dougstubes.com and www.thetubedepot.com ship worldwide.

Now...in general:

Power Tubes...

SED winged EL34s (to include Svetlana) are a spongier tube. Attack is a little soft. They have big musicallity, and are very even tonally.

Ruby EL34s have a bigger bottom end, and have more attack to them.

Tungsol EL34s - See above.

JJ EL34s - no experience with them.

Pre-amp Tubes...

Sovtek LPS - tons of gain...very woody...very quiet...very 3-d

Tungsols - more trebly...not as gainy...noisy

Chinese 9th (to include Penta) - lots of gain, thick, more open, trebly

JJs - not as gainy, darker, kinda 2-d (tho Soldano love's them)

Mullard RI - Gainy, musical, not as quiet as the LPS

Sovtek WA, WB, WC, WXT+ - just not in the same league as the above tubes.

I have a new JJ "high gain" ECC83 that I'm trying in my Engl this weekend. Supposed to be a different animal than normal JJs.

Now..other's people's experience wil be different cause tube amp circuitry is different between amps. Sooooo..this is just a general guideline.

Bottom line...get your amp bias'd no matter which you buy. Get several different pre-amp tubes and switch them around until you find the sound you're looking for.

HTH

 

[TwelveGauge-GT]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Thanks for the great reply!

It has Ruby tubes in the power section at the moment. I like their bass, but the treble is a too shrill for my liking. This could be down to knackered tubes though? Don't get me wrong, I want nice highs as long as they're sparkly and not harsh. It's likely that the tubes were old when I got the amp so I don't really have anything to compare to.

After doing some reading, the JJ E34Ls (upgraded EL34) are supposed to be a good match for this amp and I think I'll go for them.

I'm still undecided about the preamp section though.

Yes I am in the UK and would prefer not to order from the US. Most tubes are made in europe anyway. They're too delicate to risk breaking in the post, I think!

If this description can be trusted, I think I'll go for JJs in the preamp. Do you have any experience with the ECC803S (long-plate version)?

Right now, I'm thinking ECC803S in V1 and three normal ECC83S tubes.


I've seen some people talking about 'high gain' versions of the JJ 83S do such things exist?

 

[mustaine-who?]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Thanks for the great reply!


Yes I am in the UK and would prefer not to order from the US. Most tubes are made in europe anyway. They're too delicate to risk breaking in the post, I think!

If this description can be trusted, I think I'll go for JJs in the preamp. Do you have any experience with the ECC803S (long-plate version)?

Right now, I'm thinking ECC803S in V1 and three normal ECC83S tubes.


I've seen some people talking about 'high gain' versions of the JJ 83S do such things exist?

thetubedepot.com offers the high gain version of JJs...and from whay I've read...they're different from the regular JJs in both tone and gain. I guess I'll see this weekend. There is some interplay between the power and pre tubes. Pick a power tube that is trebly, and that can be magnified by a trebly pre-amp choice. From what I've read on HC...the JJ EL34s are pretty good. Ruby's seem to be the flavor of the minute over there, but a few people have Tungsol EL34s in their Splawn Nitros, and seem to really like them.

FWIW...I think your game plan for tubes is good. A proper bias is really important...

 

[TwelveGauge-GT]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Yeah, I'll definately get the bias checked. Whichever tubes I end up getting, I'll take the amp to a tech and I might get it serviced at the same time.

That tubedepot website is interesting, they have a lot more variations of each tube than other sites... but I suppose you're not getting the best tubes if you choose the standard option. Their system seems a bit wierd: you could order a tube that was tested for high gain, but you might not be getting a better tube because they didn't test for microphics, etc.

When you get it, please could you post your impressions of the amp? It would be helpful.

Anyone got any experience with the ECC803S?

Also, how can I tell if the filter caps are dying? Where would I get replacements?

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Decent caps last a long time. Although I would not not say 15 years is too soon to replace them just for maintenance reasons. How old is your amp, what made you inquire about the caps?

 

[TwelveGauge-GT]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

The amp is an '88 according to the test sticker on the back, so I just thought that after 20 years they might start deteriorating, hehe.

I had never been aware of them before, but I read over this today and thought they should be something to inquire about.

It's my first tube amp so I'm still learning...

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Yeah, I'll definately get the bias checked. Whichever tubes I end up getting, I'll take the amp to a tech and I might get it serviced at the same time.

That tubedepot website is interesting, they have a lot more variations of each tube than other sites... but I suppose you're not getting the best tubes if you choose the standard option. Their system seems a bit wierd: you could order a tube that was tested for high gain, but you might not be getting a better tube because they didn't test for microphics, etc.

When you get it, please could you post your impressions of the amp? It would be helpful.

Anyone got any experience with the ECC803S?

Also, how can I tell if the filter caps are dying? Where would I get replacements?

You don't need to worry about the electrolytic filter caps until the amp is over 20 years old unless there's a specific problem. Even then, I'd focurs on power tubes and Tips 1-4 long before worrying about filter caps (unless they look deformed or are physically leaking). They might be "blue cylindrical things" but there are a lot of different components in there and caps come in different colors.

It's unlikely that you need to replace all of the preamp tubes. IMHO you probably don't need to replace any of them. OTOH getting one or two or three to experiment with in the first preamp slot would be worthwhile - the first tube has the greatest impact on tone.

+1 on The Tube Depot or Doug's Tubes. I was about to say that no one tests for microphonics, but Tube Depot claims to for $4. Personally, I'd just buy the "standard" testing and get several brands of 12AX7 but YMMV. Others will disagree, but "matching" and "balanced triodes" are marketing B.S. in my experience.

I've tried a ECC803S from JJ and didn't like it much - too dark & muddy for my taste but others love JJ preamp tubes.

Your power tubes could easily require replacing. I'd do a search for "EL-34" and "EL34" here - that should give you plenty of opinions about different brands.

Here are a couple of European tube vendors, courtesy of the 18 Watt forum:

http://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/

http://www.watfordvalves.com/home.asp

Please note that I have NO experience with these vendors - just pulled their links off the 18 Watt website. I have had good experiences with both The Tube Depot and Doug's Tubes.

Chip

P.S. Whatever power tubes you get, have the amp biased by a tech.

 

[TwelveGauge-GT]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Thanks for that. If they're quite dark, I may use an EH in V1 to brighten the signal.

Which tube would be the phase inverter in the signal path? The one closest to the EL34s?

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Thanks for that. If they're quite dark, I may use an EH in V1 to brighten the signal.

Which tube would be the phase inverter in the signal path? The one closest to the EL34s?

The PI usually is closest to the power tubes, but don't worry about "balanced triodes". Frankly, if that tube is doing it's job, I'd just leave it alone.

EH 12AX7s are solid tubes for testing purposes but don't have much flavor IMHO. For me personally, new Tung Sol and Shuguang (9th generation chinese - could be sold as is, by Penta, Ruby, etc.) are my favorite 12AX7s.

Chip

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

In EL34's I really like the Winged C SED, the plain old Sovtek and the Russian made Mullard reissues as well, for 12AX7's my fav is hands down the reissue Tung Sol but I also like the EH as well as the Sovtek LPS and a few others but these are easy to get and will do you just fine...

 

[TwelveGauge-GT]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

I've pretty much made up my mind now. Thanks you your help!

I'm gonna get JJ E34L power tubes and four different preamp tubes: a JJ ECC83S, a JJ ECC803S, an Electro Harmonix 12AX7 Gold and a Sovtek 12AX7LPS. Then I can just try them in different positions to get the best sound.

 

[Animal]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

Even though you've probably already made up your mind, I recently replaced the Sovtek WXT EL34s I had in my AOR50 with a pair of JJ KT-77s. Sounds a lot better now. Those tubes are highly regarded amongst AOR users.

 

[TwelveGauge-GT]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

I havn't actually paid for the order of the tubes yet.

I didn't realise you could do a straight swap with a KT77 - thanks for replying!!
Lot's of people seem to really like them on the internet.

Looks like I may have to change my order!

 

[glassman]

Re: Laney AOR needs a new set of tubes. ...Which ones?

A field test to see if your power supply caps are in need of replacement:
*tune your low E string, noting the change in tonality as the string decays.
*plug your guitar into the low input of your AOR and dial in a clean tone at a moderate volume.
*running your tuner in acoustic mode (using the internal mic) strum your low E only.
*worn out filter caps will cause the pitch to go flat...remember to recall what the string did as it decayed when it was plugged into the tuner and compare the two.

radial capacitors can last up to 20 years if the amp is played regularly; less than 10 is possible when it is not.

proper bias is subjective; I used to bias the country guy's amps a little high to make them "plucky", blues guy's amps a little low to make them growl. It's all personal preferrence.

Tubes tend to "darken" in tone as they approach the end of thier service life. If your amp sounds bright, I would question if the tubes even need to be changed. The difference in tone between tubes has more to do with where they are biased at than the actual tube used.

Jerry