Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

[Lewguitar]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

Those are much bigger values than the tiny 180 pf. cap PRS uses.

Wish someone (besides me!) would try it.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

Those are much bigger values than the tiny 180 pf. cap PRS uses.

Wish someone (besides me!) would try it.

I like the 330pf Ibanez uses stock. Although honestly I have never cared much to experiment with this as the 330pf seems to fit my needs.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

Those are much bigger values than the tiny 180 pf. cap PRS uses.

Wish someone (besides me!) would try it.

I'll try it. I just ordered a whole bunch of small values caps. I'll probably get them this week and I'll do the whole experiment over this weekend.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

A resistor in series also helps make the treble bleed more transparent and it doesn't affect the pot taper. Using a resistor in parallel takes a linear pot more logarithmic, which may or may not be desirable based upon your preferences.

Cap and resister in parallel draws out the taper unusably long making it an inverse log.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

Those are much bigger values than the tiny 180 pf. cap PRS uses.

Wish someone (besides me!) would try it.

I'm wit it Lew, I've tried it. I'm only using 50s now, but I found it suble but effective when I tried it.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

I went back to the 180pf cap and it sounds great. You're right it does have a slight acoustic quality to it, just a little twang and shimmer.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

I went back to the 180pf cap and it sounds great. You're right it does have a slight acoustic quality to it, just a little twang and shimmer.

Cool! Won one convert!

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

Yup! My volume works correctly now.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

I just happen to have a large assortment of small caps and a guitar that will be opened up for a new neck pickup, so you might win over a second convert.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

This thread and a couple others that I have read got me to thinking about the many variations of treble bleed mods. I have used a pretty standard version of the Duncan TB (cap and resister in parallel) but have liked the Kinman TB better (cap and resister in series) and have used it alot. So yesterday I spent a good deal of time (way too much) trying different cap and resister values. The results were obtained from my ears and not from any scopes or electronic theory, so this is MY opinion only.

I made a jig that had 3 caps (.001uf, .01uf, .10uf) connected to several different resisters (100k, 151k, 220k, 300k, 410k). I could select between any combination of cap and resister in series (Kinman TB type), or separately (Simple TB type). The results were very interesting and not what I expected. I used this on a LP type guitar (HH) and tried it on both the bridge and neck buckers.

Using the .01uf cap by itself gave the most appealing tone throughout the vol pot sweep, but there was very little tone OR volume difference until I got down to about 4 or 5. Not good if you want some control over volume near the 7-10 range of your pot, which I DO. The typical Kinman values of .001uf and 130k ohms are said to be best for single coils using 250k pots. Reviews that I have read suggest using a resister that is approximately half the value of the vol pot (range of 150k - 300k for humbuckers with 500k vol pot).

I found that even with my 500k vol pot, the 100k-151k resister sounded best. The 220k - 300k gave a "smoother" but less dramatic response. I found that for me, the best treble bleed was the Simple TB (cap only) using a 100uf cap. It retained all of the highs and upper mids as I rolled the vol down and kept the tone sounding the same all the way to zero vol. Just what I wanted.

So if any of you want to try this yourselves, I have LOTS of resisters, 30 different values from 10 ohms up to 1 meg ohm. I will be happy to send some to you (free) if you PM me with your address. I don't have any caps to spare, you'll need to get what you want on your own, but I would suggest only using values between .0005uf - .010uf (and .010 is really way too high, .005uf is probably high enough).

Revisiting an old thread here, exploring comparisons of treble bleed types.
For humbuckers, I too like the plain single cap as used on PRS guitars.

GuitarDoc, I've highlighted part of your post #16 from upthread. 100uF seems awfully high for a treble bleed, perhaps a misprint.
Did you mean 100pF/.0001uF? Or the more usual 1000pF/.001uF?

 

[Clint 55]

100-400pf is about the range for cap only.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

100-400pf is about the range for cap only.

Yep,I figured he probably meant 100pF. My PRSs (at least the ones I've looked inside) use 180pF cap-only.
And that works wonderfully for humbuckers.

Was astounded by the cleanup when I got my first PRS back in the 80s.
Several positions sounded almost like an acoustic when rolled back.
For years I thought the magic was all in the T&B pickups.
I'd never experienced a treble bleed before.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Learned something new about treble bleed caps yesterday...

If you connect the treble bleed from the first lug of the volume to the unused lug on the tone control, it'll fade the treble bleed out as you turn down the tone.

When I mentioned doing this, I was talking theory, but now that I look back on this thread, I may have to try this. Part of the problem with treble bleeds is that they don't tend to work too well if you turn down volume and tone at the same time.

Edit: I'll have to revisit this, on second glance it looks like the wiring should be a tad more complicated than this.

 

[Hank-]

Franks treble bleed setup helps with controlling the brightness overall via tone pot when using a treble bleed & it's simple and works fine with only a cap. I don't think it works right with no load tone pots but it's simple to try it. Connect one end of the treble bleed cap from the left lug of the volume pot & the other end of the cap to the unused lug of the tone pot. It helps with controlling the artificial treble presence when using big treble bleed caps. It won't work with the resistor in parallel treble bleed variant but will work with kinman one though too.

 

[freefrog]

Oups, I had posted the message below in answer to another post but I've the feeling now that my contribution doesn't appear as a proper reply... So let's cancel the quote and keep what I was saying, that I think to be still on topic when it comes to treble bleed cap values:

<<I feel free to share again something that I've said in another post:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...73#post6093973

If time permits, I'll also share later some pics showing that a volume pot @ half resistance can have almost the same response with caps and resistors of totally different values, if these components are in series OR in parallel with each others. >>