Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
- Thread starter Jeff_H
- Start date
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
Wanna compound the crow factor and dispel some more urban legend? That guitar was originally bought new from..............GUITAR CENTER !!!!! :smack: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Wanna compound the crow factor and dispel some more urban legend? That guitar was originally bought new from..............GUITAR CENTER !!!!! :smack: :laugh2: :laugh2:
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
.....and just for good measure
.....and just for good measure
rinse_master
Member
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
That's a Beauty Jeff, hope you enjoy!
That's a Beauty Jeff, hope you enjoy!
Stringmachine
New member
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
I've NEVER seen a bad Les Paul here in Norway. The distributor for Europe is Luthmans in Sweden, and they are pretty strict. They will return anything they don't like. Have seen several beauties from Gibson over the last year or so, and all are up to standard (and beyond). Perfectly set up as well.
I buy mine used, though!
What do you have to pay for a Standard in US? In Norway they are about $ 3.200.
I've NEVER seen a bad Les Paul here in Norway. The distributor for Europe is Luthmans in Sweden, and they are pretty strict. They will return anything they don't like. Have seen several beauties from Gibson over the last year or so, and all are up to standard (and beyond). Perfectly set up as well.
I buy mine used, though!
What do you have to pay for a Standard in US? In Norway they are about $ 3.200.
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
Thanks guys. This is an interesting debate, especially for me. And just to clarify, I wasn't expecting this to be a dud when it arrived, especially considering it came from a trusted forum brother. If it was a dud, he would have unloaded it on ebay or somewhere else.
I think my critisicsm of Gibson started with several events of circumstance that were in part unfortunate, and in part just pure chance. When I was looking to get my first high end USA guitar about 2 years ago, I looked at Les Pauls, PRS and Dean Hardtail's. I was also looking for a good deal, and wasn't willing to plunk down 2k plus for a guitar. So naturally that left the mom and pop stores out of the question for me, where you would probably find guitars that were set up better with less QC issues than Guitar Center.
The Les Pauls that happened to be available at the time I was looking all just seemed to have issues.....cosmetic issues, fret issues, finish issues, ect. They just didn't feel right. Perhaps it was just a bad batch from Gibson combined with poor setup and care from GC. PRS felt much nicer, but out of my price range.
I played the Dean Hardtails, and the fit and finish were outstanding on every one I picked up...from a couple of different stores. At the time there was no comparison. Well, what I have realized it that I was comparing apples to oranges, just like GJ suggested. 2 years ago the Dean Hardtail was a brand new offering, being produced in limited quanties....more along the lines of a Hamer type of production and probably still is. It's an unbound ebony fretboard compared to a bound rosewood fretboard on the LP. Completely different feel.
Well at this point, human nature takes over. Now in my mind every LP I had picked up was a dud, and the Hardtail was fantastic. From that point on the bias was set. Then when I would go into guitar center or anywhere else, and pick up a Les Paul, I was expecting it to be poor quality. Well, if you expect something to suck it usually will, regardless of what reality is.
After listening to and reading posts from guys here whom I really trust, GJ, Scott, Wattage, Simon, ect (you all know who you are), I slowly begin to realize that my thinking may be off. GJ is right....Gibson builds hundreds of thousands of Les Paul's....some are bound to be duds. It's a shame, but it's a fact of life. Does it suck to have to pay $2k for a dud?....yup. Should it happen?....in a perfect world no. Think about other high end products that are mass produced (not handbuilt high end guitars, that's a different league). Take cars...Infinity, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes. All great cars, each one builds some that just suck. Never run right, constant maintenance issues, ect. Fact of life. It sucks that the one you get has issues, but that doesn't mean that all of them are bad.
Now that I am more experienced in higher end guitars, have a greater understanding of how guitars are built and finished, I can start to break down personal biases that are not based in fact. Combine that with friends here whom I have grown to trust, and the wisdom that comes with getting older and realizing it doesn't make you weak to change your position, but rather makes you strong, and you have the formula that will allow you to enjoy many more things in life...not just guitars.
This one is definately a keeper. I'll post up some new pics later today. The top doesn't have the red it appears to have in TC pics, and it looks completely different now with the Nickel Seths in there. Thanks to everyone who has helped me on this journey.
Thanks guys. This is an interesting debate, especially for me. And just to clarify, I wasn't expecting this to be a dud when it arrived, especially considering it came from a trusted forum brother. If it was a dud, he would have unloaded it on ebay or somewhere else.
I think my critisicsm of Gibson started with several events of circumstance that were in part unfortunate, and in part just pure chance. When I was looking to get my first high end USA guitar about 2 years ago, I looked at Les Pauls, PRS and Dean Hardtail's. I was also looking for a good deal, and wasn't willing to plunk down 2k plus for a guitar. So naturally that left the mom and pop stores out of the question for me, where you would probably find guitars that were set up better with less QC issues than Guitar Center.
The Les Pauls that happened to be available at the time I was looking all just seemed to have issues.....cosmetic issues, fret issues, finish issues, ect. They just didn't feel right. Perhaps it was just a bad batch from Gibson combined with poor setup and care from GC. PRS felt much nicer, but out of my price range.
I played the Dean Hardtails, and the fit and finish were outstanding on every one I picked up...from a couple of different stores. At the time there was no comparison. Well, what I have realized it that I was comparing apples to oranges, just like GJ suggested. 2 years ago the Dean Hardtail was a brand new offering, being produced in limited quanties....more along the lines of a Hamer type of production and probably still is. It's an unbound ebony fretboard compared to a bound rosewood fretboard on the LP. Completely different feel.
Well at this point, human nature takes over. Now in my mind every LP I had picked up was a dud, and the Hardtail was fantastic. From that point on the bias was set. Then when I would go into guitar center or anywhere else, and pick up a Les Paul, I was expecting it to be poor quality. Well, if you expect something to suck it usually will, regardless of what reality is.
After listening to and reading posts from guys here whom I really trust, GJ, Scott, Wattage, Simon, ect (you all know who you are), I slowly begin to realize that my thinking may be off. GJ is right....Gibson builds hundreds of thousands of Les Paul's....some are bound to be duds. It's a shame, but it's a fact of life. Does it suck to have to pay $2k for a dud?....yup. Should it happen?....in a perfect world no. Think about other high end products that are mass produced (not handbuilt high end guitars, that's a different league). Take cars...Infinity, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes. All great cars, each one builds some that just suck. Never run right, constant maintenance issues, ect. Fact of life. It sucks that the one you get has issues, but that doesn't mean that all of them are bad.
Now that I am more experienced in higher end guitars, have a greater understanding of how guitars are built and finished, I can start to break down personal biases that are not based in fact. Combine that with friends here whom I have grown to trust, and the wisdom that comes with getting older and realizing it doesn't make you weak to change your position, but rather makes you strong, and you have the formula that will allow you to enjoy many more things in life...not just guitars.
This one is definately a keeper. I'll post up some new pics later today. The top doesn't have the red it appears to have in TC pics, and it looks completely different now with the Nickel Seths in there. Thanks to everyone who has helped me on this journey.
Stringmachine
New member
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
Ha! And you guys are complaining about the price...?? :smash:
Guess I'll just have to move...
Ha! And you guys are complaining about the price...?? :smash:
Guess I'll just have to move...
TattooedCarrot
New member
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
and I think the first pic outside by the pool definately looks more redish, the second indoor pic to me doesn't look red, but more brown fade at the edges, which I prefer over the red "clownbursts" as I call those lipstick red heritage cherry bursts.
kherman said:
TattooedCarrot said:
and I think the first pic outside by the pool definately looks more redish, the second indoor pic to me doesn't look red, but more brown fade at the edges, which I prefer over the red "clownbursts" as I call those lipstick red heritage cherry bursts.
T
TheArchitect
Guest
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
But why should they need a new nut out of the box? They don't make that many more than Fender or PRS. As Gibson is trying to position themself as a premium builder (with price tags to match) we should never be discussing something like that. At that level a "dud" should be defined as an instrument that is just tonally average or lacks "mojo" or has a top lacking in flame. We could debate those points as its very subjective and pretty meaningless in terms of playability and build quality. Basics, however, should just be a given and they aren't with Gibson. I believe TC himself had a recent run of bad instruments from Gibson himself recently on a 335. I wish I knew what Gibson put in the water that lets them get away with it. If PRS or Hamer had that kind of issue they would be absolutely crucified for it. With the Gibson faithful its just the price of playing Gibson.
Glad you like your axe. A well executed Gibson is a beautiful thing.
Gearjoneser said:
But why should they need a new nut out of the box? They don't make that many more than Fender or PRS. As Gibson is trying to position themself as a premium builder (with price tags to match) we should never be discussing something like that. At that level a "dud" should be defined as an instrument that is just tonally average or lacks "mojo" or has a top lacking in flame. We could debate those points as its very subjective and pretty meaningless in terms of playability and build quality. Basics, however, should just be a given and they aren't with Gibson. I believe TC himself had a recent run of bad instruments from Gibson himself recently on a 335. I wish I knew what Gibson put in the water that lets them get away with it. If PRS or Hamer had that kind of issue they would be absolutely crucified for it. With the Gibson faithful its just the price of playing Gibson.
Glad you like your axe. A well executed Gibson is a beautiful thing.
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
Well said. I agree that Gibson makes a ton of guitars, and as a result, they are bound to have more bad ones than a smaller builder. My problem with Gibson is that the issues they have with QC are obvious problems that should never make it past a simple 30 second inspection. A nut that needs replaced, frets that need leveled right from the factory, strap buttons that are installed crooked, a permanent marker line that has been finished over...these problems should have been spotted and the guitars should have been pulled from the line before they were sent out.
My other problem with Gibson is that I feel they cut corners in terms of their building. All of their guitars should be built with a long neck tenon because it's a superior design compared to the short tenon. But instead, they use an inferior design in their standard models and use the long tenon only on the more expensive models. It's not any more expensive or difficult to use the long tenon design on all their guitars, but they choose not to. Gibson's neck joint is also very sloppy. Rather than build the necks and bodies with the proper neck angle in mind, they design the neck so that it can be rocked back and forth until the proper neck angle is achieved. This makes it easier on the guy in charge of setting the neck, but it destroys the coupling between the neck and body, an extremely important part of the build if you want the best sustain and the strongest unplugged tone.
When Gibson gets it right, a Les Paul is a tough guitar to beat. I'd like to have one someday, but if I'm going to buy one, I'm going to go all out and get an original 1968 black beauty Custom. I'm convinced these guitars were better made 37 years ago. I can't think of too many other companies where I can honestly say that.
Ryan
TheArchitect said:
Well said. I agree that Gibson makes a ton of guitars, and as a result, they are bound to have more bad ones than a smaller builder. My problem with Gibson is that the issues they have with QC are obvious problems that should never make it past a simple 30 second inspection. A nut that needs replaced, frets that need leveled right from the factory, strap buttons that are installed crooked, a permanent marker line that has been finished over...these problems should have been spotted and the guitars should have been pulled from the line before they were sent out.
My other problem with Gibson is that I feel they cut corners in terms of their building. All of their guitars should be built with a long neck tenon because it's a superior design compared to the short tenon. But instead, they use an inferior design in their standard models and use the long tenon only on the more expensive models. It's not any more expensive or difficult to use the long tenon design on all their guitars, but they choose not to. Gibson's neck joint is also very sloppy. Rather than build the necks and bodies with the proper neck angle in mind, they design the neck so that it can be rocked back and forth until the proper neck angle is achieved. This makes it easier on the guy in charge of setting the neck, but it destroys the coupling between the neck and body, an extremely important part of the build if you want the best sustain and the strongest unplugged tone.
When Gibson gets it right, a Les Paul is a tough guitar to beat. I'd like to have one someday, but if I'm going to buy one, I'm going to go all out and get an original 1968 black beauty Custom. I'm convinced these guitars were better made 37 years ago. I can't think of too many other companies where I can honestly say that.
Ryan
Jeff_H
Dean Hardtail Fanologist
Re: Les Paul - Time For Me To Eat Some Crow
And some new pics with the nickle Seth Lover set. I think the ole' girll has found her final look. Now I just have to get the right pickguard and install it!
Les Paul and Hardtail
Les Paul Nickel
TattooedCarrot said:.....and just for good measure
And some new pics with the nickle Seth Lover set. I think the ole' girll has found her final look. Now I just have to get the right pickguard and install it!
Les Paul and Hardtail
Les Paul Nickel
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