Les Paul won't stay in tune

man-in-moon

New member
Got it new about 2 weeks ago. I broke down and ditched the 9's that came on it. But it will not stay in tune no matter what I do. The nut has been checked and is fine the truss rod is good intonation is just about perfect. It came stock with Grover locking tuners that seem to be holding fine.
I will tune it up then after about 5 minutes the G will be out of tune then after a few more minutes the others will be as well. But the G seems to be the worse. The strings I am using are Dunlop. I am on my 3rd set of them and still have the issue. I have used them on other guitars and never had an issue. They have actually held up better than the ghs boomers did.
Another thing I noticed is sometimes the G string has a slight buzz at the bridge. It's not constant though. The saddles have been checked and are tight the groove is smooth and the string sits in it good. Me and my tech are running out of ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

man-in-moon, did you stretch the strings? That is essential. Also G going out of tune more than the others is the norm. Mine (Ibanez ARZ800) does this as well.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

How are you wrapping the strings around the machinehead posts? (Photographs would help enormously with this.)


EDIT - Did you buy the guitar from out of state? If so, the issue could be the change in atmospheric humidity affecting the woods.
 
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Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

How are you wrapping the strings around the machinehead posts? (Photographs would help enormously with this.)
With locking tuners, that shouldn't matter.

a little graphite in the slots, always tuning up to the note and stretching the strings should go long way toward resolving the problems.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

How are they going out of tune? Do they go one way, then go the other?? This is typical of nut friction caused by slots either too small or wrong shape.
just continually getting flatter is a symptom of the need for stretching or tuner slippage.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

Agreed - assuming that it is being done correctly.

I don't wrap the strings at all with lockers. What could he possibly be doing incorrectly with the wrap that would have any impact? As long as the string is locked down, the wrap is entirely irrelevant.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

man-in-moon, did you stretch the strings? That is essential. Also G going out of tune more than the others is the norm. Mine (Ibanez ARZ800) does this as well.

I have never once stretched strings :wall: so it must not be that essential :18:

Does the guitar go out of tune again and again after you tune it? Or just the first time after its out of its case?
 
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Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

I don't wrap the strings at all with lockers.

I was not suggesting that you do. It is what the OP is doing that is under discussion.

What could he possibly be doing incorrectly with the wrap that would have any impact?

Not pulling the string taught before locking. This introduces unnecessary turns of string around the post, thereby defeating the object of locking 'heads.


As long as the string is locked down, the wrap is entirely irrelevant.

Untrue. Any unnecessary turns of string around the post introduce the possibility of movement of those turns around the post.



Speaking of posts, it is remotely possible that string tension is drawing the bridge and/or tailpiece studs out of the top of the guitar.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

Sorry it took me so long to reply guys. As far as wraps around the post when I am tuned the string makes about a third of a wrap. It goes out of tune constantly. I take it out of the case tune up then after 5 minutes have to retune. Then I have to retune about every 5 minutes after that. The tech I use went over the nut and saddles and everything was spot on. I trust him he has set my stuff up for years. As a cool side note he setup alice coopers and motley crues guitars when they came through a few weeks ago.
But anyway some strings are going sharp and some are flat. He put graphite in the nut slots as well. I do not know if it is related but in 2 weeks ir less i have broken 3 strings which i havent broke a string in years. One was at the tailpiece one was right at the tuner and the last one was around the tuner as well.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

You don't say which model of LP you have, but I have had this kind of problem on a couple of my Gibsons.

The first thing to check is the bridge. If you have the traditional vintage ABR-1 bridge, check the saddles VERY carefully. Sometimes the intonation screw can flip up out of it's slot, so you'll need to make sure that all of the saddles are seated properly--it should be a tight fit; they have to snap into place. It can be hard to see. Sometimes they only pop up when under tension--if that is the case, the bridge is probably defective and should be replaced under warranty. This will not happen if you have the more modern Nashville bridge. BTW, on the ABR-1, the intonation screw heads should be next to the pickup.

Also, where your strings cross the bridge...you don't want the string to actually touch the body of the bridge; you want to make sure that it is a clean shot from the stop tail to the apex of the saddle.. If your stop tail is all the way down, try raising it a bit. ABR-1 bridges are a bit fragile, and they can collapse. It is often a bad idea to screw the stop tail piece all the way down--it can put too much pressure on the saddle, and cause the center to collapse.

Another problem common to LPs with ABR-1 bridges is that the bridge posts will start leaning. Again, a warranty issue.

Stop tails can develop burrs that can damage the ball-end windings. Often you can see this damage if you look closely. This can happen with Strat tremolos, too. SRV had his tech slide a piece of plastic insulation over the string before inserting into the tremolo block. I've also seen guys do this with their Gibsons. Some of the Gibson strings use a red silk wrapping at the ball end and this can help.

If the stop tail posts are very loose, you can wrap a small piece of plumber's Teflon tape around the screws--that will firm them up. You won't need much.

I do use the Big Bend's Nut sauce at the nut slots. I will sometimes use it in the saddle grooves--a VERY tiny amount. Never ever use it on the tuning machine posts.

On non-locking tuners, proper winding technique of the string around the tuner post is key. You want to wind it so that the string locks itself around the post. Check out the CF Martin website--they have the best tutorial on string winding I've seen. You only need about 2-1/2 to 3 winds on the wound strings, I do a few more on the plain strings. And despite the fact that locking tuners are supposed to be "easy" and need no winds, I would try wrapping the offending strings like you would a standard tuner, with minimal winds.

I'm not familiar with the Grover lockers. But locking tuners can fail to properly lock; sometimes a Schaller or Sperzel tuner will get it's thumbwheel cross-threaded and it won't seat properly. You can think it's tight but it isn't. Or, it could simply be a bad tuner.

Another issue I've had is with strings. D'Addario had a batch of strings go out where the ball-end wraps were coming loose. The string would just keep going flat until the ball-end came off. They were very nice about it and sent me a bunch of stuff. Try another brand of strings: D'Addario, EB, GHS, Gibson.

I know you've checked the truss rod, but just make sure that you have positive tension on the adjusting nut.

Most of my Gibson's came with high nut action. I had to have them filed down so that the string would not go sharp in the first position chords.

That's all I can think of. If you still can't find the problem, then I would start making some calls to your suppliers: Dunlop, Grover, Gibson; and see what they say. I know these things can drive you crazy.

Good luck and let us know what you find out.

Bill
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

LP's don't need locking tuners.

I know that it is frowned upon but give a full wrap on the lockers it'll help with breaks at the tuner itself IME. I use Superlube in the paste/gel form on the saddles and the nut I find it helps tremendously with tuning stability, I use it at every string change, just a very small amount. If it is going sharp I would say the nut slots are not quite right yet. Unfortunately I've never heard many good things about Dunlop strings maybe try a set of D'Addario's just to see how they work on the guitar?

From my own personal experience with every new Gibson I have ever owned, the first year or 2 it's like a puppy and needs pretty regular correction. I imagine the humidity is pretty high in Alabama this time of year and that wood is all over the place.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

I will tune it up then after about 5 minutes the G will be out of tune then after a few more minutes

Is it a Gibson or an Epiphone? My second guitar ever is an Epi LP with a bolt on neck with a G string that won't stay in tune for anything, even after several attempts at a remedy. It's the main reason I don't play it now.

From what I understand, the G string is the most liable to go out because its a) unwound and b) of the lowest tension. You might have better luck with a wound G.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

I'm a Fender guy. I own one Les Paul. When I first got it this was an issue for me as well. I put Grover lockers on it. My older brother who lives across the country from me, and is a bit of a luthier. He said I was a dumb ass, and I didn't need lockers. His son is a big Gibson guy, and owns a butt load of Gibsons. My brother said Gibson uses machine cut nuts. They always have sharp edges when they are new. He suggested having my local luthier file the nut slots, which I did. Zero tuning issues since he smoothed out the edges of the nut slots.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

I'm a Fender guy. I own one Les Paul. When I first got it this was an issue for me as well. I put Grover lockers on it. My older brother who lives across the country from me, and is a bit of a luthier. He said I was a dumb ass, and I didn't need lockers. His son is a big Gibson guy, and owns a butt load of Gibsons. My brother said Gibson uses machine cut nuts. They always have sharp edges when they are new. He suggested having my local luthier file the nut slots, which I did. Zero tuning issues since he smoothed out the edges of the nut slots.

Any basic level luthier knows you're better off with locking tuners on any electric guitar. The concept is extremely simple and i find it hard to understand why a lot of people can't grasp it.

I would like to know one reason why locking tuners are a bad idea?
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

I actually prefer the kluson tuners but the locking grovers came standard. The guitar is a gibson traditional pro 2. With the push push pots and the mid boost. I know the problem is something small and dumb its just annoying. I am wondering if the bridge is messed up since it does have a slight buzz with some of the saddles.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

Seriously, it is a two week old new guitar. Check the nut and bridge (post), and if the problem is not easily solved there, return the guitar get another. Why chase your tail until the thing is out of the return period?
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

Yeah I am going to check the bridge posts. I have owned or tried out about 11 gibsons over the past 2 months they have all been great sounding and playing guitars. But all havr had bad hardware. I went through 2 firebirds the first one had an issue with one of the tuners. The replacement bird had one of the tuners snap off at the store when I went to pick it up. A traditional pro where the push push pots wouldn't stay pushed in. I saw some with bridges broke in half cracked nuts.
Busted tuners i even saw a fresh out of the box 335 with a crack running from f-hole to f-hole. I don't know what has happened to QC lately.
 
Re: Les Paul won't stay in tune

If the guitar tech has checked everything and can't find the problem, before you take it back, just try one set of a completely different brand of strings, as has been suggested. It sounds like it's entirely possible for you to have gotten a bad batch. Then, if the problem persists, I agree with Ayrton. Return it while you can.
 
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