Les Pauls over priced?

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

comparing hitler to the boss of gibson is about the worst exaggeration ever.

Hello??? It's called a parody; the exaggeration is part of the intended humor. Man, some people are just dry.

 

[ATR]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

Overpriced, yes. But you can sell them in 30 years for much more than you payed for it. Think of it as an investment.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

today's gibsons are, in my opinion (no offense to real gibson players)are slowly being marketed to non playing collectors. I mean how many 17 year old guitar players can afford a gibson unless they work all summer and have saved money and not spend anything?

That's what happened to me last year when i bought my high end guitar, and, though i planned on getting an SG, the deluxe strat was cheaper and had better playability.Even when i could afford one, i chose to buy a different brand-that says alot.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

I have a couple strats, nice guitars no doubt. I really wish they felt/sounded better to me (preference might be a better word than better) because if so, I could save a lot of money. Unfortunately, I just keep coming back to Gibsons, Les Pauls in particular. IMO there's just nothing that sounds as good and plays as nice as a Les Paul. I curently have 3 Les Pauls, an SG, and two strats (Fender and Warmoth).

 

[Tweed]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

today's gibsons are, in my opinion (no offense to real gibson players)are slowly being marketed to non playing collectors. I mean how many 17 year old guitar players can afford a gibson unless they work all summer and have saved money and not spend anything?

That's what happened to me last year when i bought my high end guitar, and, though i planned on getting an SG, the deluxe strat was cheaper and had better playability.Even when i could afford one, i chose to buy a different brand-that says alot.

Most 17-year olds (and their parents) can't afford a new LP. They buy Epis...that's where Gibson's marketing is directed, at least in part. When that 17 y.o. joins the work force in a few years and has more disposable income, maybe they'll buy that Standard or Historic. When I first started playing, I wanted a Country Gentleman, because I took my first few steps as a player on a friend's. I was a college student, so that wasn't going to happen. I bought a used Harmony Rocket. And I didn't spend my time complaining about the fact that the guitar I wish I had was so out of reach. I played the snot out of that Rocket, and eventually I earned and saved enough $$ to step up into something better...and better...and better. Felt pretty good, I might add.
The fact that you chose your Strat over an SG is irrevelant. It shouldn't say much (if anything) to anyone...except you

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

Doing a very quick Google search, I see guitar tonewoods for the following prices:
Mahogany body blanks - $81.75
Ebony 1st grade fretboard blanks - $18
Rosewood blanks - $8-$10 (depending on species)
Mahogany neck blank - $19
Maple tops - from $105 - $225.50, depending on flame

This is based on almost no research, just one website. Now figure in that Gibson is buying the raw material in massive quantities, which would of course lead to a tremendous discount. Also add in the binding, the electronics (they make their own pickups, so magnets, bobbins, and wire), hardware. It all adds up to OVERPRICED!!! What they don't tell you about Gibsons is that the little abalone inlay on the headstock adds about $2000 to the price. Funny, you can buy enough abalone for an entire fretboard at Stew-Mac for $40. There must be some serious machinery and manpower involved in carving out those six letters.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

Did you do the same comparison thing with any other product out there? Honda spends about $3,000 making a civic and sells them for $14,000. Nike makes shoes for $6 and sells them for over $100. It's all relative – that’s capitalism. If you're comparing the prices of raw materials to a finished product, maybe you could just build your own, because that's being unrealistic.

I don't think anyone here disputes Gibsons cost too much, but my post earlier about materials was regarding the comparison you made to Fender and my point is still valid regardless of your internet research. Keep it in context and research the material & differences vs. price between Gibson and Fender if that's what you're looking to dispel.

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

My previous posting was not a specific response to anything on this board, just justification to my way of seeing that Gibson guitars are overpriced. I would say a great deal of products that consumers purchase have a pretty high list price to materials cost ratio. It's up to each individual consumer to decide in any given circumstance if it is worth it. For the record, I don't purchase Nike shoes, either. The same website lists:
2 piece Swamp ash body blank - $65
Alder body blank - $63
Maple neck blank - $20
Rosewood fretboard - $8-$10
Fender also winds their own pickups, and I would guess that hardware is roughly the same cost. It looks like the cost of materials is not too far off between a Strat and a Les Paul. Certainly, a Les Paul takes more workmanship to construct than a Strat, with the carved top, binding, glued-in neck, and inlays, and does require more wood with the maple cap. I think Gibson is absolutely justified in charging more for a Les Paul than a Stratocaster. Just not as much as they do. Perhaps a way to judge whether something is overpriced is to estimate the cost of materials and amount of workmanship to make a product. This, again, does justify Les Pauls costing more than Strats, but not that much more. Again, I fully believe in capitalism, they can charge what they want and you are free to pay it. I just personally feel that there are companies making guitars with comparable materials and comparable workmanship that are a significantly better value. They just don't say "Gibson" on them. The other thing about this and my previous post is that I have absolutely no idea how much it actually costs any guitar company to produce a particular model. I'm sure that they get tremendous discounts on supplies, but there are certainly costs about which I have no idea. I just thought it was interesting that Gibson turns what looks to be several hundred dollars worth of suplies (at least, it would cost me several hundred dollars) into an instrument that lists for $4495. There just can't be that much labor, and undoubtedly, the machinery can't cost that much to purchase or operate.

 

[usagi]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

I have owned a Les Paul Deluxe for about 15 years. Until this year it's been my only electric guitar. I was lucky enough to find it in a pawn shop for $475.00. I saw the exact same model the other day in Seattle for $1800.00. I have yet to play another guitar with a smoother neck, though by no means have I played them all. I love Les Paul's but I agree they are over priced! They work off the same principle that Toyota does. A comparable quality Japanese car by another manufacturer will cost 5000-10000K less. Because people will pay for the name. However, if the product was no good people wouldn't bother. I agree ESP or Ibanez probably are more guitar for the money and I doubt I could afford a Les Paul any other way but the way I got this one. Still I dream of a Slash or Wylde Custom Paul someday.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

I think Gibson is absolutely justified in charging more for a Les Paul than a Stratocaster. Just not as much as they do.

I totally agree, while Gibsons are naturally going to cost more than Fenders for those reasons already mentioned, it seems that there is a much larger spread on the Gibsons than the Fenders.

In 2001 I bought a brand new LP Custom for $1800. They now go for more than $1,000 more. In three years, the price of the custom has risen approximately 35% while inflation has only risen about 9% (average 2-3% per year). They're getting nutz. I predict eventually the roof will come crashing down. For now I buy all my Gibsons used anymore.

 

[Boston Joe]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

What they don't tell you about Gibsons is that the little abalone inlay on the headstock adds about $2000 to the price. Funny, you can buy enough abalone for an entire fretboard at Stew-Mac for $40. There must be some serious machinery and manpower involved in carving out those six letters.

I don't know if this applies to all Gibsons, but I believe the logo is just a block that is inlaid into the headstock. No carving involved.

 

[MrHeavyMetal]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

cool, in 30 yrs I can sell my 95 Sig Jimmy Page Les Paul for $300,000. :laugh2: :13:

 

[matt99camero]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

When sitting in my Business classes I think about this alot. OK lets say it costs $400 for parts and labor from start to finish to make a guitar equal to the quality of a Les Paul Custom. Now you take that guitar and sell it for a respectable $700, and let's say we sell a million guitars a year(I have no idea how many companies sell in a year). That's making profits of $300,000,000 a year off of our product. There are some other costs involved but here you definately have more assets than liabilities. Now lets have great customer service and let the guitars we make and our customer service quality be what represents us.

Now Gibson may see this same thing but they think, we are Gibson, a name known all over the world, we have been involved in the making music what it is today. Sure we could charge what Joe Sombody over here is charging and be sucessful, but we own the name Gibson and the years of guitar making is worth something more than this guy over here. So if Gibson charges $1000 for that same guitar they have profits of $1,000,000,000 off of those same guitars.

I will say Gibson's cost too much but every time I see one I have to wipe the drool off of my mouth. I think Gibson is entitled to charging more than other companies since they were one of the inovaters of the guitar, but not as much as they charge today. Gibson isn't worried about the people that can't afford it right now, they are worried about getting the people who can now or will be able to in the future to buy their product. So as long as Gibson can charge that much they will. Everytime you(yes you reading this) buy a high end Gibson you just reassure that to them. The only way they are going to lower their prices is if they see a prolonged drop in profits.

I could be completely wrong just what I was thinking right now.

 

[NT02]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

I'm 31. I own a 2002 Les Paul Classic and a 2002 Harley Night Train. I've had faster, more reliable, cheaper toys. I used to think people were crazy for spending so much money on things. But now, I have a Les Paul, which is the first guitar that ever made me want it...just hanging there, looking sexy enough to worship, magical. It has the tone, the look, the feel, and it's all mine, for a lifetime.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

I would say that gibson are definitely pricing at the higher end of what their research tells them the market will bear.

I recently played a USD 7000.00 Les Paul Std, and that guitar was perfection. I'm not a Les Paul guy by breeding, but that guitar may well be the finest electric guitar I've ever touched and heard. Is 7 grand too much for a Les Paul? -not if you're a vintage guy. So, in those terms, maybe it isn't so much of a bad deal.

But I'm talking about perfection here. When it comes to the inconsistencies and quality control issues I've seen on standard production models, then Gibson's pricing can seem a bit of a piss-take. I also find it annoying that you have to pay 7 grand to get a Les Paul that doesn't weigh a ton.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

When it comes to the inconsistencies and quality control issues I've seen on standard production models, then Gibson's pricing can seem a bit of a piss-take.

I hear this a lot, but being the owner of literally dozens of Gibsons (new and used) over the past 4 years (since my out-of-control gear whoring kicked in), I have only run across one unacceptable QC issue on a Gibson. It was a production Iommi sig where the ebony fretboard was dried and shrunk causing some fret overhang. Other than that, my Gibsons have been incredibly nice (from the faded series to the custom shop, I've had them all). I’ve also owned other high-end gear like PRS, Fender, ESP, and others so I have a basis to compare. I think the Gibson QC issue has been blown out of proportion to the point of almost being an urban legend on guitar forums; it just gets repeated and repeated without a lot of substantiation. There will always be some issues, that's just the way it goes. But IMO it’s not epidemic the way it would appear by reading various guitar forums.

Personally I think Gibson's weakness is in the customer service area, I've had a couple experiences that were not handled well by them. One of them was they had accidentally double-shipped me an ES-137 on a drop ship order from a vender. The vender only got charged for one, Gibson only reflected one shipped, yet two arrived. I called and let them know and they were rude and actually hung up on me after saying, "wow, that was nice of you, we'll send someone out to pick it up, thanks....click".

 

[\m/(00)\m/]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

you know whats weird?

i have this epiphone les paul standard that i bought about 4 years ago.

no gibson i have ever played has played as nice as my epiphone. none at all, not a les paul custom, not a les paul standard, nothing else has ever come close in the gibson line. and it was only $300, almost 11x the price for a gibson les paul custom and it doesn't even play or sound or feel as nice as my epiphone.

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

no gibson i have ever played has played as nice as my epiphone. none at all, not a les paul custom, not a les paul standard, nothing else has ever come close in the gibson line. and it was only $300, almost 11x the price for a gibson les paul custom and it doesn't even play or sound or feel as nice as my epiphone.

Consider yourself lucky, you saved yourself a lot of money. I've owned several Epiphones too (and ESP/Ltd, Schecter, Agile, etc) and while they were nice for $300 guitars, they didn't do it for me. I really wish they had. Right now I want a 335 style guitar, I've had two Epi Dots (very nice) and a 333, and the Dots just weren't there. I liked even the faded 333 better (after adding Seths).

 

[jmv]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

When sitting in my Business classes I think about this alot. OK lets say it costs $400 for parts and labor from start to finish to make a guitar equal to the quality of a Les Paul Custom. Now you take that guitar and sell it for a respectable $700, and let's say we sell a million guitars a year(I have no idea how many companies sell in a year). That's making profits of $300,000,000 a year off of our product. There are some other costs involved but here you definately have more assets than liabilities. Now lets have great customer service and let the guitars we make and our customer service quality be what represents us.

When you're figuring their profit margins and all.... don't forget that theres a lot of people involved in making these guitars, and lots of people in the gibson company that need to have their salaries paid, because they are hardworking americans, just like you or I. Also, guitar center or wherever it is you buy your gear from gets a certain profit, plus whatever they need to pay the salaries of all THEIR employees, also....

I'm not saying the gibsons are not overpriced, but you have to realize that if the guitar costs $400 in parts, the rest is not all profit.

And, to the guy who looked up prices of wood to justify their overprice-ed-ness, you also have to remember that you're not just paying for the wood, but for the QUALITY of the wood. You probably have no idea if the price you looked up is the finest honduras mahogany, really light stuff, resonant... or if its a heavy tone-dead plank.

 

[matt99camero]

Re: Les Pauls over priced?

Well I did say $400 for parts and labor(which would include the cost of how much they pay each employee to make each guitar) and that $300,000,000 would cover the CEOs and all the other stuff.

But you did make me wonder what say a Les Paul Custom sells for wholesale. How much do places like guitar center or any music store mark them up to make a profit. As I said that was just a very rough estimate.