Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

[JOLLY]

Recorded bass tones.

You know, whenever I do any recording, the bass is usually the very last thing that I record. I know I do it completely bass ackwards (no pun intended) as opposed to the way most people record. The "standard" is to do the bass and drums together as the main tracks before the guitars and vocals come in. However, I've pretty much always recorded my bass second to last, right before I do my solos. I always do my solos last because I pretty much have the entire backing track layed out for me.
Anyways, and especially for those of you that record a lot, have you ever noticed that your bass just doesn't sound the way you want it when you hear it by itself as opposed to how you hear it when in the context of the recorded song?

I've recorded countless times in my life. However, there's one thing that I've always noticed. Some of the best bass tones that I've ever heard on their own are completely crappy sounding in the mix of a certain song. On one song it may sound great, but on another song with the same guitar tone, it may sound horrible.
The greatest thing about this for me is youtube, believe it or not. I used to have all these great bass tones that I thought would work for my songs, and then when I would go to record my songs, the bass sounded like total crap. So, I would fart around and play my song back while I twiddled with the knobs on the bass amp. I would get a great tone for the song, and it would sound amazing for the song, and then I would listen back to the isolated bass, and it would sound like crap...lol.

I'll give you a few prime examples. I have always absolutely loved the bass tone on Jet City Woman by Queensryche. It is just so nice and clean with a fantastic amount of bass, yet a sweet brightness combined.
I decided to get that tone the other day with my Spector bass, and it freaked me out. I listened to the song, but I had a somewhat hard time dialing in the tone. I was close, but I wasn't. Then I listened to an isolated bass video of it. It blew my mind, man.

I was soooo far away with my settings that you wouldn't believe. I sat here for about an hour or two, and I dialed in that bass tone perfectly. It was about as far from hell as you would think that bass tone was. After listening to the isolated version, I ended up with a completely distorted bass tone, with the bass on ), the mids on about 1, and the treble on about 7. Now mind you, I was using a modeled SVT, and I had the hi frequency on about 9 and the bass frequency on about 4.

Anyways, we'll get back to the conversation in a bit.

This is the song with everything:

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Full band:

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Isolated bass:

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Now, here in a bit, I may record the bass tone that I copied for it, just to let you hear.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Hear are some other prime examples of how awesome a bass sounds in the context of a mixed song, but really somewhat sounds like crap on its own.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Your assertions about recorded electric bass guitar are equally true for the other instruments in the finished mix.

You mention making adjustments to the tone control parameter values of an amp modeller. Have you tried adjusting the loudspeaker cabinet model, the microphone model and its virtual position?

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Sounds the same really, somewhat, but I never really ever noticed that it was all "chorus'd" out until I listened to this.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Those are some floppy bass lines.

I I discovered a long time ago that the guitar tone I prefer sounds great solo, but is muddy in a band mix.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

I think that the problem is, people don't realize that when combining different tracks, the frequencies are cumulative. This can result in the overall mix being both muddy and tinny. When you isolate a track from a good sounding mix, it will sound like it's lacking. I try to explain this to my band mates when doing live recordings. When the drummer thinks the overall level is good, inevitably, the guitar is not loud enough in the playback.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Your assertions about recorded electric bass guitar are equally true for the other instruments in the finished mix.

You mention making adjustments to the tone control parameter values of an amp modeller. Have you tried adjusting the loudspeaker cabinet model, the microphone model and its virtual position?

I should also mention that recording my own personal bass tone never quite worked out for me in a studio. That being a real live bass stack, and not modeled. None of the folks I ever recorded with, just couldn't quite get, and understand my tone. I never figured out what the problem was.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

Those are some floppy bass lines.

I I discovered a long time ago that the guitar tone I prefer sounds great solo, but is muddy in a band mix.

Not to be narcissistic, nor talk about myself, per se, but that's kind of like some of my recent recordings with guitar. When I am sitting here by myself and playing guitar, I have the gain/distortion on around 7. When I recorded the other day, I triple tracked, as usual, and I had the gain/distortion on about 4 1/2.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

I think that the problem is, people don't realize that when combining different tracks, the frequencies are cumulative. This can result in the overall mix being both muddy and tinny. When you isolate a track from a good sounding mix, it will sound like it's lacking. I try to explain this to my band mates when doing live recordings. When the drummer thinks the overall level is good, inevitably, the guitar is not loud enough in the playback.

I agree.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

my own personal bass tone

This needs clarifying. Even if you own just one bass guitar and it has just one pickup, playing techniques should afford you more than one tonal signature.

recording

What a sound is, how it gets recorded and what is done to the recorded signal afterwards is a whole other topic in its own right.

None of the folks I ever recorded with, just couldn't quite get, and understand my tone. I never figured out what the problem was.

Recorded music is artifice. Often, arriving at a good overall band sound is a matter of choosing the right elements. An awful lot of the time, the right element for nailing down the low end is a P Bass sound.

You mention recording bass guitar fairly late in the overdubbing process. Working this way obliges you to choose a bass guitar sound that sits with the rhythm guitars and drums. The reverse is also true. If you track the bass guitar earlier in the process, it will affect your choice of guitar tones. Perhaps, the best compromise is to lay down a guide rhythm guitar, play bass to that, then redo the guitar parts so that they fit on top of the drums and bass.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

I will explain all of the aforementioned questions, on post #16, at my leisure tomorrow, when I don't have a buzz, and I can go into depth.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

FWIW I think those bass tones all sound great on their own as well as mixed.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

THIS ONE however...

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Let Us Talk About The Differences In Perceived Recorded Bass Tone, And Actual

I would like to know where these isolated tracks are coming from - studio school where someone's dumping curriculum tracks online, or are these software rips from the mixes?

On the subject of the subject, I found the Chris Squire Roundabout isolated bass track to sound nearly identical to the mix, so there's also the aspect of getting the entire band tuned and toned around each other, including drums (blankets, specific heads and shells, etc), unless, as I say, these tracks are being ripped from the final mix somehow.