Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

donahue

donahue

New member
Hey guys, I recently put my DOD fx40b EQ up for sale cause I got a decent deal on an MXR KFK EQ. I figured why not, I love having an EQ in my chain, and the KFK is a trusty MXR 10-band with a couple perks,right?.. it must be better? To put it shortly, my DOD seems all around better than the KFK.

First off, how I my setup goes: I leave my Metal Muff set with so when its engaged and not the EQ, I have a middy metal distortion type of tone. I have my EQ scooped with the level at midway (zero), so I have both a classic middy distortion, and a boosted scooped sound with EQ and MM engaged. That gives me two types of metal distortion.

I don't know about all MXR's, but why is there only +-12 on all bands, whereas the DOD is +-18? That seems like a major diff. The DOD seems like it boosts more than the KFK, even with the level/vol at midway (0). The band frequencies are totally different. The DOD also seems to sound less farty. Plus, whats with the vol and gain on the KFK? Isn't that what dirt pedals are for?

DOD: 100hz 200hz 400hz 800hz 1600hz 3200hz 6400hz

KFK: 31.25hz 62.5hz 125hz 250hz 500hz 1khz 2khz 4khz 8khz 16khz


What do you guys use and why? Should I throw away the hype and get an old MXR 10-band? I love having an EQ in my chain. Is there a better EQ pedal than MXR? If so, I'll buy one, cause I think its a cruical part of the sound I like. I'm not totally dissing the KFK, I just think that there may be too much hype. Also the the KFK is kinda small and girly sized. I guess I thought it would be bigger, like full sized EHX. LOL

I know this may be beaten to death, but lets get it straight (maybe for the vault)
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Given that a typical guitar speaker doesn't produce significant energy over about 4kHz I'd say the top two of the KFK's bands aren't a lot of use. And generally for guitar you don't want anything under about 100Hz, so the bottom two bands aren't either, leaving you 6 useful bands. Seems a waste of time to me.

I also find for guitar that fewer bands actually makes for a more useful pedal - I'd rather be working with wider ranges at a time.

The gain and vol does make some sense to me though - gain is presumably an input pad, so if you have hot pickups you can trim it to prevent clipping, and if you have very low output pickups you can boost the level to reduce noise. Then the output level lets you trim it back to unity or add any cut or boost you want.

But if I remember correctly the KFK runs on an 18v supply, so it'd have plenty of headroom anyway.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

What are you using it for? special effect? lead boost? to boost weak pickups? enchance frequencies?
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

KFK: 31.25hz 62.5hz 125hz 250hz 500hz 1khz 2khz 4khz 8khz 16khz

Most of that is an absolute waste. Four bands of pointless EQ and not nearly enough adjustment of the bands that matter. What about an 80hz band? And nothing between 250hz and 500hz?

32.25hz ??? Even bass guitar isn't that low. I'd have to check but off the top of my head I'm thinking that freq. is pretty much the lowest of the low bass, like kick drum resonance and 808 drops.

I'd return that thing. Sounds like it was designed for home-only players who will never play with a band or record any music and don't know any better.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Yeah, wow ... those EQ bands are a bit stupid. Anything over 7 kHz is absolutely useless, as is anything under 100 Hz. There is some debate about the 80 - 100 kHz range being useful, but I have NEVER seen or heard a guitar put out anything worth boosting or cutting under 100. Then again, I don't record much metal.

Your DOD has the same values as the BOSS GE-7, which is a great pedal IMO. If you like the DOD better than the KFK, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it really makes sense that you would.

If the KFK had 10 useful bands of EQ, it would probably be a fine pedal. As it is, only six of the bands will do anything, and even those seem to have fairly strange values. It's also cool to have input and output gain levels - this allows you to tame a really hot signal at the input stage before it slams the EQ, or boost a weak signal to give it some muscle.

Bottom line: the KRK is a stupid pedal, and MXR should be punished for making it.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

See if you can A/B a Boss EQ with a DOD. The Boss was the industry standard for a long time....for EQ pedals.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

I just checked, and the plain black MXR 10 band has the same stupid band values as the KFK, which actually looks to be the exact same pedal with two outputs for some reason. I won't even comment on the tattoo graphic.

The 6 band MXR has the same bands as the GE-7 minus the 6.4 kHz (which is probably the least useful one anyway). More importantly, however, it's also missing a level control, which effectively makes it useless IMO.

Honestly, I think Dunlop/MXR is doing a pretty piss poor job overall these days. They seem to be all about cranking out signature pedals that are essentially a clone of the original with different case graphics. As far as making actual useful pedals that real players need, they're completely out to lunch. They still have a few good pedals (Dyna Comp, Micro Amp, Phase 90), but even those aren't quite as good as the originals that put MXR on the map.

If I were you, I'd sell that thing and buy a GE-7. It's the industry standard for a good reason.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

The DOD FX40B is a major sleeper of a pedal.

I picked up mine super-cheap (like, under $20) expecting to use it sparingly and have since used it on two rigs I gig out with.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

The 6 band MXR has the same bands as the GE-7 minus the 6.4 kHz (which is probably the least useful one anyway). More importantly, however, it's also missing a level control, which effectively makes it useless IMO.
Click to expand...
I have a behringer EQ (copy of a BOSS GE-7) and the MXR six band sounds a lot better (less muddy and punchier) but the lack of level control stopped me from wanting it (that and I can't afford to buy an EQ when I need plenty of other things). But I would like to know of a useful EQ pedal that sounds better then a GE-7 yet isn't too expensive and doesn't have stupid freq bands.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

The 6-band MXR M109 and the DOD mentioned by the OP are both severely lacking in midrange flexibility. They go straight from 400 hz to 800 hz. In order for that not to end up sounding really weird, the Q value for each band must increase exponentially as they go up.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Wow, guys, awesome responses. Are the bands on the old MXR 10-bands the same as the new? I also noticed that the MXR 6-band has no level, which is kinda dumb. I think I'll sell the KFK after I mess with it a little more. They are a hot item on ebay, so I shouldn't have a problem getting rid of it.

I guess my biggest gripe is the +- 12 as opposed to 18 on the DOD. That just won't cut it.

Yeah, the DOD is nice and clear sounding. I like how the engage switch is smooth and noiseless too. I've been happy with thier pedals lately. I think I"ll hang on to it.

Edit: I'll look into the GE-7

What about the EHX Graphic fuzz? Now that pedal seems really cool. A graphic eq and fuzz in one pedal that can be used separtately. Any GF owners?
 
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Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Gee, you guys are a tough crowd. Design a CLASSIC EQ pedal--but it's a lousy pedal because you're trying to use it in a manner for which it is not intended???

Graphic Equalizers are meant to EQUALIZE, not BOOST. The MXR 10-bands are most effective at gently shaping an EQ curve. In the Seventies and Eighties, I used one of the original blue 10-bands to give my solid-state amp a bit more bottom end fullness. As I recall, the original blue 6-band MXR EQs have more range. Unless you are going for really dramatic effects, a graphic EQ is best used with judicious and small amounts of boost and cut, as often certain sonic anomalies like phase cancellations, can be introduced. Don't mistake GAIN and VOLUME for equalization.

These pedals aren't designed to introduce "grit" or distortion to your signal--they are designed to be clean and transparent. The original MXR 10-band design was available in a stereo configuration for audiophile applications, and it had the specs and transparency to compete wih many of the much higher priced units of the day.

Why 10-bands, and why those particular frequencies? Well, those are the standard ISO frequencies for octave equalizers. Audio engineers set standards for these units back in the day to achieve some conformity of design--which is what you want when you're an audio engineer trying to tune a PA system for a room or make a recording. Most PA systems use 31-band, 1/3 octave EQs; or at the very least, 15-band 2/3 octave EQs. There are also PARAMETRIC EQs, that allow you to adjust the center of the frequency boost or cut, as well as the amount of boost or cut. Better units allow you to adjust the "Q", or bandwidth, of the boost/cut.

There's quite a bit more leeway in the GUITAR EQs, like the Boss GE-7, the MXR 6-band, and the DOD EQs. With up to 18dB of boost, you certainly can use these pedals to overdrive certain frequencies. Mesa Boogie designed a 5-band Graphic EQ that was used in their Mark and Dual Calibre Series amps. The Mesa EQ is very well thought out, and though it only has five bands and +/- 12dB of adjustment, moving those sliders only a few dB can radically change your tone.

The MXR 10-band is a very high-quality unit. I believe the new M-108 has similar specs to the Kerry King model. The KFK has an additional output, and the KFK graphics. The input and output level controls allow you to very carefully match levels to keep both inputs and outputs clean and transparent--and you can match levels with a wide range of equipment. I use a M-108 on my acoustic guitar pedalboard. I add a slight amount of bass boost at 62.5 and 125 Hz; and slight cut at 2KHz. This adds a bit of fullness and depth to my Taylor 710CE and reduces the piezo pickup quack; making for a smooth, natural sound. You MUST use these with their 18-volt power supply.

These MXR EQ pedals are simply not designed to provide excessive gain, or boost or distortion. What they do very well is create complex equalization curves to compensate for room acoustics, or for use in reducing feeback, etc. They can be helpful in correcting deficiencies in amplification, speakers, and to a lesser degree--pickups. You can use them on a lot of different instruments: guitar, bass, banjo, mandolin, piano--you name it. There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about EQs, and they do have their limitations; but once you learn how to use them properly, they're a handy tool to have around.

If you are really looking for a BOOST pedal, there are much better choices on the market: the MXR Micro Amp, the Xotic boost pedals, Duncan's Pickup Booster, et. al.

The KFK EQ can't be all bad--I guess it works for Kerry King--he's smart enough to figure out how to use it and get great tone.

Good luck.

Bill
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Very valid points Bill.

I've never used my EQ pedal in the stompbox chain for anything but an actual volume boost and the addition of some mids and highs.

The DOD I have now I used in the Effects loop in my Valvetronix to give it more highs. The end result is that the amps stops sounding like it has a blanket thrown over it and really roars to life. There's no output boost but the EQing does make it more prone to carry the sound.

I've never used the Kerry King pedal, or even any MXR. I just keep coming back to the DOD thinking "Well, it's a DOD....so it can't be that good....and thusly I should replace it."

...and I always find myself walking away saying ".....but the stupid thing does exactly what I want it to do!"
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Valid points except for two:

1.) I could care less about a boost. In terms of useable frequency range for guitar, those bands do not cut it or come even close, antiquated industry standard or no. And I shudder to think of the sound engineer using an MXR EQ pedal to mix a band live or EQ a recording. Point of fact is that the unit is not designed to suit it's intended application.

2.) An artist's name on a product is never, ever any assurance of quality or usefulness, and Kerry King should never, ever be held up as any benchmark of tone - metal or otherwise. :)

Otherwise Bill, I found your post right on the mark. :D
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

sosomething said:
Valid points except for two:

1.) I could care less about a boost. In terms of useable frequency range for guitar, those bands do not cut it or come even close, antiquated industry standard or no. And I shudder to think of the sound engineer using an MXR EQ pedal to mix a band live or EQ a recording. Point of fact is that the unit is not designed to suit it's intended application.

2.) An artist's name on a product is never, ever any assurance of quality or usefulness, and Kerry King should never, ever be held up as any benchmark of tone - metal or otherwise. :)

Otherwise Bill, I found your post right on the mark. :D
Click to expand...

+1. It's a GUITAR pedal. If the frequency bands are not useful for GUITAR, they are useless.

I understand why they picked those bands, but it wasn't well thought out.

Also, as I said, the KFK EQ is nothing more than the plain ol' MXR 10 band with two outputs and different case graphics. That's what Dunlop/MXR does these days. As to whether Kerry King actually uses it, I don't really care (see sosomething's #2).
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

And no, you should never use an EQ pedal to overdrive an amp. The best use is as a clean boost or cut of certain frequencies.

That said, by boosting and cutting certain frequencies, it is possible to get an apparent volume boost relative to the rest of the band even if you don't change the overall level of the signal. When I had a Mesa DC-3 with the 5 band EQ (a great EQ btw), that's what I used it for - to cut through the mix when necessary.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

Boogie Bill said:
Gee, you guys are a tough crowd. Design a CLASSIC EQ pedal--but it's a lousy pedal because you're trying to use it in a manner for which it is not intended???
Click to expand...

I'm not using my EQ pedal as a boost, or grit pedal. I have a boost and two dirt pedlals in my chain.

I've found, however, that it does make my signal sound louder and fuller, as if it was boosted. If you want argue that, you'll have to come over and listen for yourself.

I know what its purpose is, I'm just saying that the KFK doesn't serve that purpose as well as I thought.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

I have some old Ibanez EQ pedal.. it is pretty cool. I got it for free when I sold an Epi double neck that I bought for cheap... the guy offered it for gas for driving a couple of hours. I don't use it all the time, but it is pretty cool. I think it has 7 sliders plus a level... which I need if I run it in the loop of my 5150II as there is that slight volume drop. I used an MXR 6 band, and it was very cool... but it did lack in the mids. When I use it, I scoop the mids out and mess with Dime riffs! I boost the mids on my amp and then scoop them with the EQ... kinda like he did, it is only when I play alone though.. scooped mids sound like poo in a band sit.
 
Re: Lets get to the nitty gritty of EQ pedals

ratherdashing said:
And no, you should never use an EQ pedal to overdrive an amp. The best use is as a clean boost or cut of certain frequencies.
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand this.

A clean boost into a saturating amp will produce more overdrive.

Setting an EQ as a treble boost or as a mid boost will give you a different "flavour" of dirt from your amp.

I can't see why that's inherently undesirable?
 
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