Let's talk condenser mics

[drew_half_empty]

I guess this could have gone under tips and clips, though i'm wanting one more for live application in which case it does have something to do with amplifying sound... anyways


Tax season is pretty cool sometimes, and this year is one of those times, so I'm pulling the trigger on a nice nylon string classical guitar--conveniently a couple months before my jr. recital. I been diggin class a lot lately, doing and learning lots of arrangements, and next year i get to do a lute concerto by vivaldi with the chamber orchestra at school. Also it's contributing a lot of material to my soloist setlist, so... blah blah I need a decent condenser now that I'm gonna have a decent class guitar that I'll be performing with regularly. I'm not so worried about recording. So, criteria would be

-Around $200 new or used
-on the warmer side, I don't like a lot of "attack" and jangle in my sound for this stuff
-doesn't pick up a lot of outside noise like breathing and stuff


Some I've been looking at are the CAD e70, the AKG 220, and the AKG 1000s, but of course I'm open to other ideas. At this point sort of leaning toward the CAD though, mostly because of the high end roll off switch, decent rep, and the fact that i could get 2 of them used for around budget.


thanks

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

I don't have any experience with those models, but keep in mind that you're going to have to have phantom power for a condenser mic to work. And I would stay away from electrets, I have one that's about 12 years old, and it doesn't work...the charge wore off. I don't know what's involved (or if it's possible) to get it recharged. Multiple polar patterns are nice, but it sounds like you could get away with one that's just cardioid for what you're doing.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

The AKG C1000 is very clean and adaptable. It can use either phantom powering or battery power. It has a dual polar pattern.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

I don't have any experience with those models, but keep in mind that you're going to have to have phantom power for a condenser mic to work. And I would stay away from electrets, I have one that's about 12 years old, and it doesn't work...the charge wore off. I don't know what's involved (or if it's possible) to get it recharged. Multiple polar patterns are nice, but it sounds like you could get away with one that's just cardioid for what you're doing.

Probably changing the mic insert [ mic module ] would be the solution here.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

I At this point sort of leaning toward the CAD though, mostly because of the high end roll off switch, decent rep, and the fact that i could get 2 of them used for around budget.

Just be aware that the switch in the CAD is a high pass filter, not a low pass filter. So that means it's a low end roll off, not a high end roll off. It will give you a 6dB per octave roll off at 75 Hz or 150 Hz, which is what you want for reducing rumble.




Cheers..................................... wahwah

 

[BRHGM]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

AKG 1000 is bright and crisp. I have a Shure Beta Green 3.1 which is sort of like a cheap SM 81. It is warm and battery powered or phantom powered. I would look for a used SM 81 or an older Octava mic.

 

[Jolly_Rancher]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

Just to be honest, $200 is not enough for a great condenser mic. However the CAD M179 is supposed to be a really great mic for the $150 http://www.zenproaudio.com/cadm179.aspx

I think if you want a mic designed for live use and with a tight polar pattern (super cardioid or hyper cardioid) you'd have to look at live condensers designed for vocals or drums - which might make their frequency response less-than ideal for acoustic guitar. There are also some small diaphragm condensers that have interchangable capsules with tighter-than-cardioid polar patterns, but they may not be too warm sounding.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

I did the sound for a friend just recently who played with a string orchestra. We ended up just using a regular dynamic instrument mic (akg) cos the condensers ended up amplifying the orchestra just as much as his guitar. Even tho the mic was closest to his beautifully constructed and powerful lattice braced concert classical, the banks of strings still had it all over him. The condenser also had more issues with feedback too.
Colin's trouble was that the string orchestra was so loud acoustically he was getting swamped, so he wanted foldback too, so the condenser concept was fraught with danger.
We had 2 FOH speakers and one foldback in that setting.
We tried two condensers before settling on the dynamic.
I know the sound quality is not as good, nor the frequency response, but it came down to what works in a particular situation. I reckon condensers for solo are great, but the old standby dynamic is worth trying out too for when you are with an orchestra. It still sounded wonderful. Throw one in your guitar case just in case you find that you are having issues at soundcheck with the condenser.

PS.
Check out a shotgun style if you are going for a powered mic live - they have a very focused field. I noticed Karin Schaupp was using shotguns last time i heard her play too.

 

[BRHGM]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

I would use either a stick on pickup like an old Berry Barcus Dot or a piezo under the saddle set up for $200 and run it to the PA. A loud orchestra would be tough to close mic a classical guitar.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

well I already have an sm57 if that ends up being the case, but it seems like the sm81 is the condenser to go with--even if it doesn't work with the orch i'm still gonna need it for solo recitals and such. Piezos/pickups IME are far too clicky for what i want

thanks dudes

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

I like samples that I've heard from lavaliers like the MKE by Sennheiser but it's expensive.

For classical, my absolute favorite sounds came from large diaphragm neumann that I have (impractical outside of studio), and an Sm81 by the 10th fret aimed before the soundhole.

The SM absolutely shines, shure also makes a KSM series that is cheaper and it gets a similar sound (big, clear, focused). SM also captures well if you set the gain and distance just right so you mostly pick up the guitar, and you could alter the 'tone' by aiming for the soundhole for warmth or frets/bridge for treble. Any 'bright mic' could be tamed by aiming for the soundhole, try to get something sensitive and near field.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

well I already have an sm57 if that ends up being the case, but it seems like the sm81 is the condenser to go with--even if it doesn't work with the orch i'm still gonna need it for solo recitals and such. Piezos/pickups IME are far too clicky for what i want

thanks dudes

yeh they are nasty things piezos.
A nice condender is worth investing in whatever you do later on.
Its good you have the 57 as a plan B option if the condenser is too sensetive for live.

 

[drpietrzak]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

Heil PR-30 or PR-40.

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Let's talk condenser mics

Generally, condensers will be brighter and more detailed compared to most dynamics.

I like these a lot.

R0DE NT5

I have two matched pairs that I use for acoustics, overheads, ride/hat, etc. They are bright and detailed, but have more low end and warmth than you would suspect from a mic of this nature (not muddy or dull either).

They are much nicer than the AKG C1000. I have a C1000 as well that I use as a spot mic on drum kits when I need one. It does the job well, but I don't like its character enough to put it anything up front.