Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Yeah A/Bypass/off should read A/Bypass/B

In my experience construction and quality of the capacitor has an influence on tone, but it is extremely subtle. The value of the cap has the most influence on tone (obviously). IF you want to save some money pick the caps you will use most and get 3 sets of those. I would think 3-4 really nice caps for each tone pot, and then fill in the remaining values with cheaper caps. You could purchase more of the nice caps over time and them add them in at a alter date if you really like and notice a difference.

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Hey nalo1022!

How are ya my man?! Ok here are some details about the extra feature I’ve been thinking about for this project… A piezo pickup with blending capabilities!

Of course this will have to be an active system which includes adding a battery to the scheme. Space is certainly getting TIGHT inside the guitar so let’s see if this one is possible!
After doing some research on hybrid Piezo-Mag systems, I’m interested in the possibility of using an Artec Master Blender MB-2 (which is a simpler version of their MB-1 system also shown in the manual):

http://artecsound.com/acou/images/etc/master-blender.pdf

According to the manual, this system can work with three pickups. It comes with it's own Blender Output Jack and two SPDT switches (one on/off/on toggle for “Magnetic-only/Both/Piezo-only” selection, and one on/on toggle for Piezo Phase Reversal option which for what I have read works as a feedback control and gives a somewhat different tone). Output jack will go on the side (as already determined in the scheme) with the two toggles on the upper side where the original three-way pickup selector was (Gretsch style… See the pic below).

It also includes four B50K pots for: two for piezo volume and tone control, and two for magnetic volume and tone control. This where I suppose we will have to start moding the damn thing to make it fit our scheme!...

First I’m guessing we shouldn’t need the volume and tone pots for the magnetic pickups since we already have that in our current scheme, BUT I don’t know if this is something that is required somehow for the active blending capabilities (the manual does implies that magnetic pickup B50K volume pot is “indispensable” but it beats my knowledge as to why that is and how we could include it with our current scheme that has the independent thumbwheel volume pots for each pup).

Second, the volume and tone pots for the Piezo pickup I wanna place on the side of the guitar as shown in the pic below (there’s just too much going on in the front and remember that one of my goals is to try and retain the original look as much as possible). Now, having two knobs in there won’t be that much of an issue BUT if possible I will like to try and get a more “camouflaged” solution like a couple of “slide-style” potentiometers (as the one’s found on acoustic guitars Preamp systems) which will make them more “discrete”. For example check out Artec’s own TC30 passive tone controller:

http://www.artecsound.com/acou/index.html

I don’t know if that specific control will actually work because it says it’s passive and the value seems to be B500K, but you get the idea.

On regards to the piezo pickup itself, I’ll like to use a Fishman Tune-O-Matic Power Bridge (I’ve always heard they’re great quality and it will fit my guitar’s hardware perfectly):

http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=56


I guess that’s it man! What do you think? Of course any suggestions with other systems that may be able to do the same in a simpler way are completely welcome!

Cheers!

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Well I've been looking into it since we first talked. As usual I'm gonna need some more info regarding the guitar etc.

-Is the Supernova a full-hollowbody or a semi-holowbody? The main thing I am interested in is whether or not there is a center block going through the body?

-I assume you want to be able to blend the magnetic pickups with the piezo pickup. You also want to be able to switch between peizo/both/magnetic, correct?

-How adverse are you to adding thing to the guitar like a preamp on the side(think acoustic guitars)? Also a battery box will probably be needed depending on the situation.

I have some ideas I'm tossing around, but I need to hear back form the manufactures regarding some things before I can really put it all together. This is definitely possible though. By the time this thing is done all the parts put into are going to be worth more then the guitar. lol

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

-Is the Supernova a full-hollowbody or a semi-holowbody? The main thing I am interested in is whether or not there is a center block going through the body?

Yep. It is a semi-hollow body with a center block.

-I assume you want to be able to blend the magnetic pickups with the piezo pickup. You also want to be able to switch between peizo/both/magnetic, correct?

Yes to all of the above!... Veeeery exciting stuff!

-How adverse are you to adding thing to the guitar like a preamp on the side(think acoustic guitars)? Also a battery box will probably be needed depending on the situation.

Not adverse at all! When I did my research I realized this was probably gonna be needed. Since it's on the side I don't think it compromises the look of the guitar that much. Also my tech guy is a great luthier as well (worked at Fender for 25 years) so he can work his way around modding the guitar without any problems.

I have some ideas I'm tossing around, but I need to hear back form the manufactures regarding some things before I can really put it all together. This is definitely possible though. By the time this thing is done all the parts put into are going to be worth more then the guitar. lol

Everything sounds fantastic bro! Again my hat is off to ya!... And indeed this thing will be worth a fortune as a spare parts source! hehehe... But I liiiiiiiike it!

Cheers!

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Ok forgot to ask this how wide is the side of the guitar? Its looking like the best option is an onboard preamp located on the side of the guitar. Dimensions will be helpful determine the best options

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Ok I've talked with Fishmann, and they have been extremely helpful. Now to part where we have to nail down exactly what you want. Her is what I am thinking.

-Use the bridge you originally posted http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=56

-Use this preamp http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=33

-Fishman gave me a diagram for adding a tone to the piezo, so that is possible. Also they provided me with a couple other diagrams for switching options.

-We could use the original hole in the upper horn for a 3 raotary to select between piezo/both/magnetic. there are some idfferent options availble if you want to go that direction.

-Place the tone etc on the side of the guitar with something like the TC30 you posted before.

-another option is to use the existing toggle hole for a dual concentric knob so you have both the tone and volume on the face of the guitar, and then add a switch somewhere else (it doesn't have to be a rotary).

-you will need to place a battery compartment on the guitar somewhere, but that is easy enough.

Regarding the Powerchip: This seems like the perfect option for you. It is small, simple, and designed for the Powerbridge. It also has a special output jack that can tell when you have a mono or Y-cable in the jack. If you use a standard mono cable everythign is mixed to that. If you use a Y-cable it routes the magnetic pickups to one section and the piezo to another, so you can use 2 amps if you wish (or a PA, mixing board, etc).


P.S. I just realized tomorrow is the 1 month anniversary of this thread starting, so happy anniversary! lol

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Ok forgot to ask this how wide is the side of the guitar? Its looking like the best option is an onboard preamp located on the side of the guitar. Dimensions will be helpful determine the best options

Hey my man! Wow it's been a crazy week!... I just meassured the guitar and it is 1.96 inches wide.

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Very interesting stuff dude! Here are my observations:

Ok I've talked with Fishmann, and they have been extremely helpful. Now to part where we have to nail down exactly what you want. Her is what I am thinking.

-Use the bridge you originally posted http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=56

-Use this preamp http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=33

I like this option better than the Artec stuff!... Fishman is really great!... I did check the Powerchip when I did my research but thought it was a little limited on regards to the MB-2 (I read in the instructions of the Powerchip that blending options where possible with other components but the info was a bit scarce so I couldn't really figure out how to do it)... I agree we should go by this route!

-Fishman gave me a diagram for adding a tone to the piezo, so that is possible. Also they provided me with a couple other diagrams for switching options.

Fantastic! As you know I use tone pots a lot so this is a must have for me!... What switching options did they provide?... Very curious about that!... Is there something regarding Phase Reversal capabilities or the sorts?

-We could use the original hole in the upper horn for a 3 raotary to select between piezo/both/magnetic. there are some idfferent options availble if you want to go that direction.

Yep. I agree this is the best place for the piezo/both/mag switch. Still I'd rather use a three way toggle than a rotary (as on the MB-2) to help maintain the original look of the guitar!... Is it possible?

-Place the tone etc on the side of the guitar with something like the TC30 you posted before.

This will be my preference indeed... It just makes sense to me! On an acoustic guitar you control the preamp with switches placed on the side, and considering a piezo gives you acoustic tones precisely, then it seems logical... It will be intuitive I think!... My only concern is that the guitar is not terribly wide... We'll need something that fits on 1.96 inches... What do you think?

-another option is to use the existing toggle hole for a dual concentric knob so you have both the tone and volume on the face of the guitar, and then add a switch somewhere else (it doesn't have to be a rotary).

As I mentioned above, I'd rather have a toggle here... I think a dual concentric knob won't look good and a "slide style" control on the side like the TC30 will work better for me!

-you will need to place a battery compartment on the guitar somewhere, but that is easy enough.

No problem here! My tech guy is a great luthier... He can make a back access or something on that regard... Your recommendations on where this should be place are of course appreciated!

Regarding the Powerchip: This seems like the perfect option for you. It is small, simple, and designed for the Powerbridge. It also has a special output jack that can tell when you have a mono or Y-cable in the jack. If you use a standard mono cable everythign is mixed to that. If you use a Y-cable it routes the magnetic pickups to one section and the piezo to another, so you can use 2 amps if you wish (or a PA, mixing board, etc).

Ooooooh separate signals!... Wow that made me drool a lil bit! hehehe... Very nice feature man! I absolutely agree that this seems like the best option!... Let's do it!

P.S. I just realized tomorrow is the 1 month anniversary of this thread starting, so happy anniversary! lol

Really?! Wow this is cool! hehehe... I'm very proud of what we've achieved here brother! I'm extremely excited with this project! It's gone way beyond my wildest expectations thanks to ya!... So kudos to you too my man! This is your baby as well!... Boy am I glad I came to this forum! I'm quite addicted to it by now! hahaha...

Cheers!

PS: By the way, the last few days were so busy at work that I haven't been able to place the order at mouser.com yet... I was planning on doing it tonight but now it seems like we may need to add some more parts for this addition to the scheme, so if some of those can be found at mouser maybe we can add them to the order... Of course if there's nothing else we can get there, I'll just place the order immediately.

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Ok i have been doing some searching, and also thinking about the best switching scheme for you. Finding a toggle switch that would be a drop in replacement for the Gibson-style toggle is a bit difficult because most toggles are mini. Also placement of the slide potentiometers for the piezo volume and tone controls is proving difficult.

-The way the Powerchip works now there is a built in switching mechanism of sorts. Like I said previously, with a standard mono cable you have both combined, and with a Y-cable they are separate signals, so a switch may be redundant. The Powerchip passes the magnetic pickup signal untouched when using a Y-cable, but if the battery dies you don't get any signal (magnets or piezo). You could not use a switch and simply turn down the piezo or normal pickups to achieve just pizeo or magnets in mono mode. You could also use a y cable and just plug into either piezo or magnetic when you simply want one or the other.

-I say this because if you want to put in a standard mono cable and have a switch to go between piezo/both/magnetic it would have to be some weird wiring. This is mainly because of the auto switching jack they provide. If we go with a switch to use a Y-cable it would need to be on both to work.

-I am currently waiting to hear back from Fishmann regarding wether the pot on the Powerchip acts as a blend between mag/piezo or if it is a volume for just the piezo, so this will obviously alter some of the options.

-I am still going throught the brainstorm phase to create the most clean, useful, and stock looking arrangement possible, so nothing is carved in stone yet.

-Regarding using slide pots of the volume/tone of the Powerchip: I am trying to find a good way to mount them to the side of the guitar, but haven't come up with anything yet. The thinness of the side means they would have to follow the curve of the body, but obviously the switches are straight. I haven't found any blank recessed boxes the could be used for such a thing yet. We may be able to fabricate something. It would be possible to mount 2 small normal pots on the die of the guitar though.

-Is the front of the guitar flat or arched? Same question about the back?

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Ok i have been doing some searching, and also thinking about the best switching scheme for you. Finding a toggle switch that would be a drop in replacement for the Gibson-style toggle is a bit difficult because most toggles are mini.

Yeah I know what you mean. When I did my research I found several references concerning how you need a SPDT on/on/on switch to select between piezo alone, magnetics alone, and the blending of both, so Gibson-style toggles wouldn’t work.

Still I was curious that the Artec MB-2’s manual says (page 5 http://www.artecsound.com/acou/images/etc/master-blender.pdf) that a “big lever DPDT on/off/on” (which seems like a drop in replacement) could be used as the piezo/blend/mags selector. Since you say its proven difficult to find a drop in replacement, then I suppose that must be a special part they make for this purpose. It can be purchased here for $7.95: http://guitarfuel.com/Master_Blender_MB1_2.php

What do you think? Will it work?… Also I might be wrong but don’t Parker Fly guitars have Gibson-style toggles for piezo/both/mags selection?.. It might be worth exploring if they have replacement parts as well as an alternate option.

Still, a mini toggle might actually work on that spot. It won’t look like the stock pickup selector obviously but it might give it a somewhat Gretsch look which I don't dislike (you know, reminiscent of the mini-toggles for cap switching that usually go on that spot alone with the pickup selector).

-The way the Powerchip works now there is a built in switching mechanism of sorts. Like I said previously, with a standard mono cable you have both combined, and with a Y-cable they are separate signals, so a switch may be redundant. The Powerchip passes the magnetic pickup signal untouched when using a Y-cable, but if the battery dies you don't get any signal (magnets or piezo). You could not use a switch and simply turn down the piezo or normal pickups to achieve just pizeo or magnets in mono mode. You could also use a y cable and just plug into either piezo or magnetic when you simply want one or the other.

-I say this because if you want to put in a standard mono cable and have a switch to go between piezo/both/magnetic it would have to be some weird wiring. This is mainly because of the auto switching jack they provide. If we go with a switch to use a Y-cable it would need to be on both to work.

Interesting stuff my man… Let me ask you something; if I was using a mono cable and had both the piezo and the magnetics on… if I turned down the volume of the piezo will the tone of the magnetic pickups suffer somehow? Or will it be just like turning off the piezo with a switch?

I’m still trying to fully understand how the piezo blending system works, but as far as I can tell the whole “blending” concept with the magnetic pickups is just a matter of how much you turn up the volume on the piezo pickup, doesn’t it?... Or is it more complex than that?

Because if it is so, then I guess all we’ll need for switching between piezo/both/magnetic will be the volume pot for the piezo. I’m guessing that, for piezo only we can just use the “on/off” switches for each pickup to get them out of the signal. For magnetic only it will be a matter of just rolling down the volume of the piezo all the way down to zero. And for both it’s just a matter of rolling up the volume of the piezo. Now, if the piezo does affect the tone of the magnetic pickups even with the volume all the way down to zero, the I guess some sort of “off” switch for the piezo might do the trick (this way each pickup has an “on/off” switch… the magnetics and the piezo).

I might be talking crazy because I’m not very experienced with piezo blending options so bear with me, but it seems to me that this is the way that my Gibson Dark Fire guitar works (http://media.gibson.com/DarkFire/Manuals/DF_Manual_V4.0.pdf). Judging by how the piezo system functions (volume plus special jack for Y-cable splitting) I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually a Fishman Powerchip. You have a volume knob (nicely hidden on the pickup selector toggle switch) that lets you mix in the piezo sound gradually and you can also leave the magnetic pickups completely out of the signal with a special electronic knob on one of the pots. Check out page 35 of the manual for the wiring diagram of the piezo.

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Obviously a three way toggle for piezo/both/magnetics would be heaven for me because it would be easier to switch between them on the fly instead of having to flip three to four switches or roll up and down a knob (with the option of taking the piezo or the magnetic pickups out of the signal using the “on/off” switches, switching between them on the fly will be a no no), so I don’t actually agree that it will be redundant. But if it`s actually that hard to get a toggle selector on the scheme, and if my understanding of the piezo blending is correct then this might just be the way… What do you think brother?

Also, the signal split option with the Y-Cable is a nice option but I think I’m actually more interested in the mono one. Thing is, I see myself using the piezo sounds more like a “tone shaping effect” than as an acoustic per se. I have my acoustic guitars for that. For me piezos give “acoustic-like” tones, but not real acoustic tones so I will never use a piezo as a substitute in an acoustic part. See what I mean?... That’s in part why I’m also looking for a tone knob and a phase reversal option on the piezo; to give me more options for shaping it’s tone!… Therefore the capability of switching between piezo/both/mags with a toggle will make more sense.

-Regarding using slide pots of the volume/tone of the Powerchip: I am trying to find a good way to mount them to the side of the guitar, but haven't come up with anything yet. The thinness of the side means they would have to follow the curve of the body, but obviously the switches are straight. I haven't found any blank recessed boxes the could be used for such a thing yet. We may be able to fabricate something. It would be possible to mount 2 small normal pots on the die of the guitar though.

I see what you mean. I guess I’ll be ok with having a couple of extra knobs (or a dual concentric) for the volume and tone of the piezo if we can hide them on the side with a recessed box (so we can preserve the stock look as much as possible). Still if we can find a way to use slide pots, that will be ideal because as I said I’m such a big user of tone knobs that the visual aid of where the pot is on the sweep is quite important to me (that’s why knobs without numbers are not very useful for me). Therefore slide pots will be a nice solution since visually they’re ease to follow.

Now correct me if I'm wrong bro, but I was examining the guitar with a ruler and I think there's actually a 9mm straight space on the side of the body (parallel to the F-hole). Check this illustration on Artec's website:
http://www.artecsound.com/acou/index.html
I'm refering to the section of the body they call the "lower-bout". It seems to me that something like the TC30 will fit there no problem (sideways obviously). There's also a similar piezo control from Artec called the AB2 ($24.95) which is the same as the TC30 ($19.95) but it is active. Check it out here: [/url]http://guitarfuel.com/AB1_AB2.php[/url]
I don't know what difference will it make or what is better for the scheme (passive or active). I just wanted to throw it out there for your consideration.

-Is the front of the guitar flat or arched? Same question about the back?

The guitar is arched on both the front and the back.

Wow this is actually a tricky one, ain’t it?!... But I know you love a challenge my man so I hope you’re having fun! Hehehe

Cheers!

PS: By the way, why don't you check out the preamps in this link: http://www.artecsound.com/acou/index.html
Wouldn't something like the FSE-4 (if on lower-bout) or the FTE-4 (if on upper-bout) work on this project?... It caught my eye because the whole preamp is only 41mm wide and includes the battery case (it will be like a TC30 but with a 4 band EQ included)... I'm just throwing this in the air because I don't really know if the blender can be wired to draw power from the same battery as the preamp or how complicated it will be (if even possible)... But it will be cool to have something like this included in the scheme!... Something like this might actually make the piezo something more than a tone shaping effect for me... It might actually make the guitar suitable for acoustic licks!... Plus it's only $40... Just a crazy idea.

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Lol still researching the best options. Here is where I'm at so far

-The pot on the Powerchip acts as a volume for the piezo only. It is not a blend pot but you can more control this way. On the Powerchip there is a small trimmer so you can match the levels of the magnetic pickups and the piezo.

-The Artec stuff is design for acoustic guitars using the piezo as the main pickup. Most of the units are not designed for the way we are planning on using it. Also Artec's products are not of the highest quality. They aren't bad, but I feel that they may be the weak link in the chain.

-If I can find the right value and usable size slide pots we may be able to use them on the lower bout of the guitar. I was thinking of using some pickguard material to make a small plate like the TC30. This will make it flexible enough so that it can follow the curve of the body. If we mount the slide pot underneath it will work. The TC30 doesn't have the right value pots. We need 20k linear and 100-250k linear for the Powerchip.

-I drew a pic in paint so you get the idea.

By mounting it underneath the pot is still easily used. The only thing to consider is if we mount a small knob on it the highest point int he travel will have to be in the center. This may be a bit of work since I don't have the guitar in hand to make something, but I'm sure we will figure something out. The dark blue is the slider in the middle position and the other 2 sliders are just examples so you see what will happen along its travel. Notice the little gaps at the edges.

-As far as switching I have figured out a way to give you piezo/both/magnetic over a mono cable. With this switching if you decide you want to use a Y-cable for stereo wiring you must set the switch to both otherwise you will only get piezo/magnetic on one channel. Another nice function of this setup is that if your battery dies you can switch to magnetic pickups only and still use the guitar as normal. The downside is that even if you have the switch to only use magnetic pickups the Powerchip will still draw power, but batteries last a long time and are replaceable.

-regarding a toggle switch: I have yet to find a toggle that is the same size as the one currently in place that will allow for the switching you want. My thinking is that you could get a mini toggle with a long lever and use washers and/or a switch plate, like on a Les Paul, so it will not fall through the hole. I may also be able to make make a sleeve that goes over the lever so it will appear as if it is a full sized toggle. I may actually just hollow out the stem of a toggle switch and epoxy it onto the mini-toggle, so you can use normal switch heads. So we are making headway while keeping it stock looking.

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Hey brother!

GREAT GREAT GREAT stuff!... I’m starting to get really excited!... Here are my comments:

-The pot on the Powerchip acts as a volume for the piezo only. It is not a blend pot but you can more control this way. On the Powerchip there is a small trimmer so you can match the levels of the magnetic pickups and the piezo.

That sounds about right!

-The Artec stuff is design for acoustic guitars using the piezo as the main pickup. Most of the units are not designed for the way we are planning on using it. Also Artec's products are not of the highest quality. They aren't bad, but I feel that they may be the weak link in the chain.

Got it man! I trust your judgment and dearly appreciate your recommendations!... I’ll leave Artec out of this then.

-If I can find the right value and usable size slide pots we may be able to use them on the lower bout of the guitar. I was thinking of using some pickguard material to make a small plate like the TC30. This will make it flexible enough so that it can follow the curve of the body. If we mount the slide pot underneath it will work. The TC30 doesn't have the right value pots. We need 20k linear and 100-250k linear for the Powerchip.

Sweet idea man! I agree using pickguard material will be ideal. The lower-bout is the ideal spot for me anyway and the flexibility of the material will come in handy when placing the plate.

I Hadn’t give that much thought to the pot values since I’m really not all that familiar with the Powerchip. Glad you’re here to enlighten me brother!

-I drew a pic in paint so you get the idea.
By mounting it underneath the pot is still easily used. The only thing to consider is if we mount a small knob on it the highest point int he travel will have to be in the center. This may be a bit of work since I don't have the guitar in hand to make something, but I'm sure we will figure something out. The dark blue is the slider in the middle position and the other 2 sliders are just examples so you see what will happen along its travel. Notice the little gaps at the edges.

Got it on regards to the travel of the slide!... But I got a lil’ bit lost on the position in the body!... I can’t picture what part of the curve of the body you’re referring to… Here’s a pic of what I see as the Upper-bout and the Lower-bout of the body so that we’re on the same page:

Based on that, I don’t think there shouldn’t be that much complication regarding the knob if the switch is on the lower-bout!... But I don’t know if I’m just not seeing it right so your judgment in the matter is welcome!

-As far as switching I have figured out a way to give you piezo/both/magnetic over a mono cable. With this switching if you decide you want to use a Y-cable for stereo wiring you must set the switch to both otherwise you will only get piezo/magnetic on one channel. Another nice function of this setup is that if your battery dies you can switch to magnetic pickups only and still use the guitar as normal. The downside is that even if you have the switch to only use magnetic pickups the Powerchip will still draw power, but batteries last a long time and are replaceable.

WOW! Again I’m blinded by your brain my man!... That sounds FANTASTIC!... Perfect perfect perfect!

-regarding a toggle switch: I have yet to find a toggle that is the same size as the one currently in place that will allow for the switching you want. My thinking is that you could get a mini toggle with a long lever and use washers and/or a switch plate, like on a Les Paul, so it will not fall through the hole. I may also be able to make make a sleeve that goes over the lever so it will appear as if it is a full sized toggle. I may actually just hollow out the stem of a toggle switch and epoxy it onto the mini-toggle, so you can use normal switch heads. So we are making headway while keeping it stock looking.

Sounds great man!... If we can get the parts you need to make this toggle at mouser.com then send me the part numbers and I’ll add them to the order.



Couple more questions:

- How do you plan to incorporate the tone pot for the piezo? You said Fishman gave you a scheme to do so, right?... Can it be placed as a next to the volume as a slide as well?... You know like on the setup of the TC30… It seems extremely useful that way!

- Have you given any thoughts to the phase reversal option? In the Powerchip manual it looks like there’s a phase jumper on the backside of the pot that controls the phase cancellation between the piezo and the magnetic pickups… Is that something we can control somehow with a switch or the sorts?... It will be a nice feature!

Cheers!

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

-The plate for the tone and volume of the piezo will probably look just like the TC30. It is essentially the same thing just custom made for our purpose. The tone and volume will be together like the TC30.
-There is a phase jumper on the Powerchip, and we can incorporate a switch to control it. It would think a good placement for it would be on the same plate as the tone and volume.

-The pic I drew up was just an example, so it wasn't draw to any scale etc. The lower bout would be ideal becasue it is flatter.

- a simple battery box like this mounted on the side of the guitar is what I'm thinking. Obviously a flatter location is best, but there is more leeway since it is much smaller. Also there is a rubber gasket around it, so when it is tightened down there are no gaps that can rattle.

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

-The plate for the tone and volume of the piezo will probably look just like the TC30. It is essentially the same thing just custom made for our purpose. The tone and volume will be together like the TC30.

Sweet!

-There is a phase jumper on the Powerchip, and we can incorporate a switch to control it. It would think a good placement for it would be on the same plate as the tone and volume.

GENIOUS!

-The pic I drew up was just an example, so it wasn't draw to any scale etc. The lower bout would be ideal becasue it is flatter.

Got it!

- a simple battery box like this mounted on the side of the guitar is what I'm thinking. Obviously a flatter location is best, but there is more leeway since it is much smaller. Also there is a rubber gasket around it, so when it is tightened down there are no gaps that can rattle.

Agreed!

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Well it looks we have almost everything in order. All we need now is to find the proper slide pots, toggle, etc. I am going to my mum's to work on some stuff tomorrow so I will see if I have a toggle that I can cannibalize, and I'll work on the speed knobs (I know I can do it though).

 

[MojoMonster]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

I just wanted to say that this collaboration is why I love the internet.

Excellent job guys.

MM

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Thanks MojoMonster. I'm enjoying this project very much. matizadomrb has a good idea of what he wants and it is a bit out there, but I love things that are different. This kinda stuff helps me keep my creativity flowing when I'm not working on my own projects.

@matizadomrb: I just realized that the toggle switch may act weird with Fishmann's special output jack. If that is the case we can either go the strictly mono route, or it may be possible to have 2 separate jacks and we can wire things for stereo manually.

 

[matizadomrb]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

Hey MojoMonster! Thanks so much for your comments! I agree with you a 100%... The internet is a marvelous tool for bonding with people that share your views and interests no matter who or where they are!... Really, before coming here I had lay this project before some of the best and most knowledgeable techs I know and they would actually get ANGRY at me for suggesting such a monstrous idea!... It seemed almost offensive to them that I wanted to think outside the box and experiment this way! hahaha... As if I was committing sacrilege to their religion!... Weird stuff!

And then along came my new guru nalo1022... Brother you're truly the best!... Not only are you open minded and selflessly collaborative, but you're not afraid to go beyond the comfort zone!... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE write a book about guitar wiring!... The world needs your knowledge to become a better place!... I'm yer number one fan now!... So glad you're having a good time translating my craziness into reality!

@matizadomrb: I just realized that the toggle switch may act weird with Fishmann's special output jack. If that is the case we can either go the strictly mono route, or it may be possible to have 2 separate jacks and we can wire things for stereo manually.

Hmmmmm this toggle is certainly becoming a tough one!... Two separate jacks is a bit too much for me… I doubt I will ever use them, so I guess mono will have to be the route of choice. Even though the capability of splitting signal with a TRS cable would be cool... Can you elaborate on how that manual stereo wiring would work?

Why do you think the toggle will act weird with the Fishman output jack?... In the Powerchip's manual (last page) it confirms that a mini toggle can be used to select between piezo/both/mags Parker Fly style... As a matter of fact I've been doing some research on Parker guitar's piezo systems and they indeed use Fishman piezos and powerchips. Check out this wiring diagrams for Parker guitars using Fishman's Powerchip:

http://forums.parkerguitars.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4863
http://forums.parkerguitars.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4865
http://forums.parkerguitars.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6661
http://forums.parkerguitars.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6662

I will shot an email to Fishman asking for some more details on incorporating a toggle... Or is the trouble related with incorporating it into our crazy scheme?!... It will just be such a great feature to have the toggle! (specially to retain the stock look!)... I think you mentioned the possibility of using a rotary as well, right?... Well if a toggle is definitely impossibility we can look into using a rotary... I'll give it some thought and try to picture how the guitar will look with different types of knobs instead of the toggle.

Cheers!

 

[nalo1022]

Re: Let's talk greed... Three P-Rails + triple-shots in one guitar!

-I don't know that the switch will cause a problem, and I doubt it will. I just have never used the Powerchip and/or their special output jack, so I wasn't sure exactly how the switching occurs. The switching method I described is a combination of a couple different diagrams.

-Looking at the Parker diagrams it appears as if there is a built int switching option on the Powerchip itself, so I do not know if this would function Properly if the battery was dead. The switching option I provided allows you to still use the magnetic pickups if the battery is dead when set to mag only.These are the kind of things I will be able to better work out when the parts are in my hand and i can test them out.

-The manual stereo wiring I described would simply result in having a switch to go between stereo operation (piezo to one channel, magnetic to another) and mono. You could use either a TRS cable or 2 separate mono jacks. everything would be sent over one channel unless you flipped the switch, so it would not automatically sense what kind of cable you are using (like Fishmann's special output jack does). Once again I don't think we will have problem; I just like give fair warning with anything I am not completely intimately familiar with.

-I worked on customizing some speed knobs, and I everything looks good. I would need to have the pots in hand so I could do test fitting, and other little finishing touches. I did notice that when you drill out the holes for the bigger shaft and the side screw you can notice some marks because the knobs are clear in that section. I was able to conceal this with some black paint, and it really isn't noticeable unless you are comparing 2 knobs in your hands, up close.

-I only had 2 speed knobs in my parts bin and they where fairly scratched up, and got further beat up during the prototyping. If you order a set of them when you get the other parts I can modify them and pack them with everything else. I ''ll see who has the best price.

- I did not have the right drill bits etc to make the special switch tip for a the mini toggle, but I know that I can work something out for you