Leveling tools

[Ayrton]

Re: Leveling tools

Plenty of good advice in here.

For the fretting out issue, take some relief out and check the radius of your saddles.

For fret leveling, a good solid leveling bar is the first thing. You can reference everything else from it.

I have the steel Stew-Mac version, but I am sure there is an alternative. Just make sure it is beefy enough to not go out of dead flat.

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Sanding/Fret_Fingerboard_Levelers.html?



For a straight edge, just get yourself a stick of 1/4" thick aluminum and check the edge against the reference bar. Don't start with a notched version. You want to know what the fret tops are doing, not just the board. You can buy a bar of (.25 x 2.0 x 24.) 6061 for under $10 online. I would trim it down to about 16-18”.

https://www.metalsdepot.com/aluminum-products/aluminum-flat-bar



Good quality sticky backed sand paper is a must. I like the 3M Stikit Gold and get it much cheaper on Amazon than Stew Mac. 180 220 320 and 400. You will use if for more than just frets, and combined with a good set of Micro Mesh with handle anything frets related.

https://www.amazon.com/SANDING-SHEETS-INTRODUCTORY-Peachtree-Woodworking/dp/B000H6HIK2



Get yourself a few sets of feeler gauges. You can find uses for longer and shorter versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-w80541-Metric-Feeler/dp/B0198E0PZS/



The best file for a beginners IMHO is the rounded diamond file. You can’t screw it up and they last damn near forever.
I bought mine when they were about $100 from Stew Mac, but now there are other places.

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Files/Offset_Diamond_Fret_File.html

https://www.philadelphialuthiertool...g-file-dual-width-medium-wide-jumbo-300-grit/

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/fret-file-diamond-offset-dressing-and-shaping-frets



For tri files, I just buy the Nicholson and dull the edges myself on the belt sander

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-6-in-Slim-Taper-File-21866N/100188490


You might want a small detail file, but not mandatory with the rounded diamond file

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Files/Fret_End_Dressing_File.html



Obviously, there are many, many additional things you can buy, but all that can come later if you desire.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Leveling tools

Thanks guys. How boring is it that I’m GAS’ing for files and straight edges rather than guitars?

Took out almost all the relief... there’s a hint of bounce between the string and frets, but it’s damn near laying on them. Bumped the action up a bit for fun, based on what I saw Dan Erlewine measure on one of Bonamassa’s guitars: .090” on the low E, .080” on the high. Also heard Dan claim a tighter truss rod makes the guitar sound better. I’m still in the honeymoon on this one, so it always sounds cool.

The high E fret out is gone. The low E still does it, but it’s still only the 13th fret, so not that big of a deal. It feels a little high, but after 15 minutes wasn’t that noticeable. For the sake of reference, is this medium, high, medium-high?

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Leveling tools

I set my action right around .070 at the 12th. I have no idea how that compares to others, but I would say that it is medium.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Leveling tools

Saying that a flat leveling file for the radius and a triangular file for crowning work better than a radius block and half round file is false. You're guaranteed to spend less time sawing away with tools that are shaped correctly for the job and you will probably get more precise results. Although some get good results with tools that you can only eyeball with.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Leveling tools

I'm with Clint on this. (Yeah, I know. Don't rag on me. When he's right, he's right).

I've always used radiused blocks for fretboards and frets. Up until the beginning of this year I used 8" wood blocks. If you're not very careful you can end up with a 9" radius by using an 11" radius block. I now use an 18" aluminum radiused block. Much easier to control and results are perfect (it cost about $150 however).

I've used steel crowning files in the past but they tend to chatter and make "ripples" in the frets. I get much smoother results and quicker by using diamond crowning files. My favorite is the "Z file" by StewMac.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Leveling tools

I agree, if you are going to use a radius block, get the longest you can afford. The short wooden blocks are not for beginners.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Leveling tools

Clint: that's your opinion. it's not as if I don't do this on a daily basis. (wait, it is). Or as if we haven't experimented with every kind of radius tool around (wait, we have).

What are your credentials?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Leveling tools

Any opinions on the Stew Mac Fretkisser?

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Too...l&utm_source=EPA&utm_content=M3771_C_20191028

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Leveling tools

It's a great tool for those precise spot repairs...you can accurately adjust a high spot on one fret under one string.

Too bad it's so expensive. I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money for such a unique tool that will rarely get used so I bought two Fret Rockers from Amazon (I think they were $11 for the pair), I super-glued them together to make it twice as thick, I trued up all of the edges, then filed a space in the middle of a couple edges just deep enough to almost compensate for the thickness of self stick sandpaper. This allows me to use multiple grades of paper to remove fret high spots fast and to polish smooth.

Yeah, it was quite a bit of work but I enjoy doing that precision meticulous stuff. And I have to admit it was about the principle...charging over $100 for such a simple tool is ridiculous!

But, if you don't mind spending the price of admission, the Fret Kisser works great. Just one caution...it work really fast (since it is only filing such a small area) so go slow and be very careful.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Leveling tools

Clint: that's your opinion. it's not as if I don't do this on a daily basis. (wait, it is). Or as if we haven't experimented with every kind of radius tool around (wait, we have).

What are your credentials?

No, it's your opinion. There's no possible way you can make a case that guessing what the radius is with a flat leveling file is somehow better than using a tool which will give you a perfect radius every time. Same with the tools for crowning and rounding the ends. Ok, so you have the skill to use a tool well where you can only eyeball. That doesn't mean it's better for a beginner than a tool perfectly designed for the job. My credentials are I do perfect fret jobs.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Leveling tools

I’m obsessive about sharpening knives. I have a cool device that clamps on the blade and keeps a series of stones at a perfectly fixed angle. It will get a knife extremely sharp. However, I can get them sharper free hand with a diamond stone.

Am I telling anyone that one is better than the other? No. A friend of mine who can’t sharpen free hand gets great results with the clamp.

There’s a sh1tload of useful info in this thread, let’s not crap it up starting arguments for no reason.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Leveling tools

ive used a long radius blocks with good success but the shop i worked had a little jig setup which was part of the magic. there was a big bag full of shot with a board on either side just wide enough for the block to fit in and a pseudo neck pocket where you could attach the neck. worked like a charm if you were radiusing a bunch of necks.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Leveling tools

Any opinions on the Stew Mac Fretkisser?

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Too...l&utm_source=EPA&utm_content=M3771_C_20191028

Can't really see the need for one, and at that price I never will. Much better things to spend your money on.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Leveling tools

How boring is it that I’m GAS’ing for files and straight edges rather than guitars?

Not boring or surprising at all. Hand files are one of the most useful tools around. In fact, I'd say I have more hand files in my tool arsenal than any other item - probably two hundred or so. My file selection varies from tiny die sinker file sets (Swiss made - mostly over $100 per set - I have 3), a massive selection of files, rasps, and rifflers all set in boards for easy access, or in tool pouches for storage. I have specialty files and rasps, and most have been modded to have safe edges or corners. I even have vixen files - body shop files that are adjustable to set curvature! I have a full selection of diamond files - large, small, many shapes and styles. I also have microfiles - though not technically a file, but are excellent wood working tools for shaping wood. One of my favorites for shaping bodies is a "four-in-hand" file - with curved rasp and flat files on one side, and curved files and flat files on the other. VERY handy, but wear gloves unless you want a blister on your palm. I'm just touching the surface of my collection.

Never store files in a drawer or box together. When they rub on each other they dull. Get a file card to keep them clean. You'll need a big one for steel files, and a small brass one for needle files, etc.

Next post will be my fret leveling tools...

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Leveling tools

Here we go with my fret leveling tools. Most I've been using since the 80's.

First - the Ken Donnell sanding file. Ken is the guy who invented and markets the Mini-Flex systems for acoustics.

It's basically a bodyshop file, but modded with a glass sole - nice and flat, solid. Has clips on the ends for holding sandpaper strips of all grits. When I finally run out of sandpaper strips in a few years, I'll start using 3M Gold Stikit papers. Rule #1 - Don't drop it. You'll have glass shards everywhere, but a local window or glass shop can fix it in an hour. The glass is glued on with silicone adhesive.






You also notice the large rectangular file? That is a fret file with one cutting edge given to me by Dan Erlewine back in the 80's when StewMac was developing those fret files with the mahogany handles. Now they have magnetic Snap Files, I think. It weighs about 3 pounds and sits solidly on the frets, and only moves when you are using it. One direction only. Works GREAT. Made a lot of money with that thing.
Fret levels? Thousands, I guess. More to come, too.

And then the little StewMac 3 corner fret crowning file. Also works great for radiusing fret ends. Made a buttload of money with this file, too! I have one of those little ones GuitarDoc posted, but it's a very fine cutting file. This one is faster. I LOVE IT.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Leveling tools

More stuff...






More shots of the fret file block, and the 3 corner file. These are workhorse tools, used at least twice a week. The 3 corner file can be used to crown frets, too. I have a second one I use and switch them out from time to time to make them last (even though they are quite affordable).

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Leveling tools

Next... I have a recently purchased diamond sanding plate for leveling fret tops when I'm not using the chunky StewMac block file, and StewMac sanding sticks for crowning frets. I have a lot of sanding belts in a few grits. If they break, a dot of super glue and I'm back in business. Very handy. That sanding stick is from the 80's, but I just bought a new one awhile back (just in case).







I have other things, too. Various wooden blocks for sanding special areas, sometimes I use needle files to level one fret. I have two steel straightedges, one for guitar - a longer one for basses. They are from the 80's.

Sorry, no pix of my solid maple StewMac luthiers bench (also from the 80's.). I do leveling on the neck jig, and then crown and polish on my other bench.

Questions?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Leveling tools

Questions?

Wanna lend me a few bucks for tools?

Thanks for sharing all the pics and info. I’m sure I will have questions once I get some files, straight edges, etc... and get going.

Here’s one now: Should I wait to get into refrets until I get good at leveling? Being able to put big-ass wire in all my guitars is the goal, and maybe making a few bucks picking up work from people who don’t want to wait on the overbooked local guy (Mark Kaiser).

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Leveling tools

You could probably practice both skills at once. Use cheap necks. It takes several tries to get good. Although there's more that can go wrong with a complete refret.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Leveling tools

Wanna lend me a few bucks for tools?

I'll pass.

Should I wait to get into refrets until I get good at leveling?

I did both. On my first bass, I would refret it every month for practice. That includes leveling, recrowning, and polishing the frets. This is the mid-70's, OK? I didn't have a bunch of tools, but I developed my skills by using them frequently. I didn't actually work on anyone else's stuff for years until I was sure I wasn't going to get sued or shot. Probably did my first PAID refret in '77, maybe? I'd never heard of StewMac then, I was either making my own tools (my industrial training was in tool & die making), or buying them from International Violin in Tulsa and Shellex in Germany.

Back then there were no books or videos about guitar repair - only guitar building. Don Teeter didn't publish his 2 magnificent volumes on guitar repair until maybe 1975? I think Volume II came out in 1980? Dan Erlewine was unknown, just a local cat in Ohio. StewMac was just a banjo parts catalog.