Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

[Scott_F]

I sold my 2x10 Victoria tweed combo cab and the speakers this morning.

I'm about to go 1x15 with this 5F4 that I built. THe 10's left me underwhelmed overall.

My question to you is what 15" speaker.

The Weber California 15 in ceramic is probably my first choice because I hear that it definitely doesn't color the tone. Being transparent is what I'm looking at.

I want to hear my amp, not a lot of speaker influence.

I hate farty old vintage Jensens. I've just come to that conclusion this year.

If they had a 15" greenback, I'd seriously consider that.

Also, I'm looking at either going with a standard laquered tweed cab or maybe something nicer like hardwood. Any thoughts about which hard woods have that not too dark tone, but definitely not harsh and bright?

Thanks.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Hi Scott, I know you'll need a 4 ohm speaker...so that probably means a Weber. If you go with an 8 ohm speaker you'll lose some output and the tone will be slightly grainy due to the mismatch.

I think the Cali 15 would probably be a good choice. It's kind of a JBL wannabe. You'll have the option of ordering it with a paper dust cover or aluminum. I've always felt that aluminum added some highs but also a slight tinsel-tone to the sound of a JBL speaker, so I'd probably order one with paper.

Thames here is a Weber user...maybe he'll chime in with some input.

The Jensen C15N was a favorite of mine back in the 60's. That's a good one.

The ElectroVoice SRO 15 was my favorite though. Ted Nugent still uses those in his Dual Showman bottems.

Don't want to confuse you, but if you could find a blown JBL 15 or Jensen C15N on ebay (not that difficult if you look everyday for a week or so) you could have one of those reconed as a 4 ohm speaker.

A blown JBL D130F reconed to 4 ohms would be especially cool!

SRV liked those and I think used those or a similar JBL in his Fender Vibro-Verbs.

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Scott, I'd stick with pine for the cab. It really does sound better. I have a '62 brownface Deluxe I bought without a cabinet...chassis only. Being a cabinet maker I had our shop build me a gorgeous solid cherry cabinet for that amp. Dovetailed corners...looks amazing. Sounds very hard! Not a pleasing tone at all. My other '62 Deluxe in the original cab sounds much more pleasing...warmer, rounder, just nicer in all ways.

Lew

 

[Curly]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

I'll defer to Lew, since he knows a heck of a lot more than me about speakers.

I think the Jensen RI C15N is worth considering at $80.

 

[Pandemonium]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

JBLs sound great in tweeds. I like Lew's idea of finding a blown one and having it reconed as a four ohm speaker. I have a blown K130 that I've already used in an extension cabinet hooked up with two 2120s in my Bandmaster [that's why it's blown], but I can't part with it. The K130 was the best sounding speaker I've ever used with that amp, it was the one I always miked.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Too bad more guitar companies don't use 15's. I've never cared for 2-10 configuration. They just seem to buckle under volume. Never with 15's. Makes strats and teles sound huge. If I built amps, I'd do what the Gibson Goldtone does with a 12 & 10, only I'd do it with a 12 & 15.

 

[Falstaff]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Scott, FWIW Allen uses a Cali for his 1x15 combo.

Maybe Victoria could make you a 1x15 cab, but I think they only use old Jensens so that's not your bag.

http://www.allenamps.com/brownsugar.htm

I'm tempted to get a 2x12 cab with Calis for my PR, just to have a different flavor. A few of my favorites (Garcia, Green, Allmans) used JBLs, so I'd like to experience playing through them (or a good facsimile) sometime.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Scott, FWIW Allen uses a Cali for his 1x15 combo.

Maybe Victoria could make you a 1x15 cab, but I think they only use old Jensens so that's not your bag.

http://www.allenamps.com/brownsugar.htm

I'm tempted to get a 2x12 cab with Calis for my PR, just to have a different flavor. A few of my favorites (Garcia, Green, Allmans) used JBLs, so I'd like to experience playing through them (or a good facsimile) sometime.

I gigged with JBL 12's: D120's and also K120's early in my career. I thought they had kind of a squeeky sounding high end...like Jerry Garcia's singing and playing. :laugh2: I liked the JBL D130F 15" speakers though.

I switched to a mix of 12" Jensens and Celestions and never looked back.

 

[Falstaff]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

I gigged with JBL 12's: D120's and also K120's early in my career. I thought they had kind of a squeeky sounding high end...like Jerry Garcia's singing and playing. :laugh2: I liked the JBL D130F 15" speakers though.

I switched to a mix of 12" Jensens and Celestions and never looked back.

Thou shalt not take the name of Jerry in vain! :laugh2:

Again, I'd love to just try it. But considering the prices I'll never be able to. Maybe the 15 someday. How did a LP sound through a 15?

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Well, no need to get Vicky to build me a cab, Bruce has tweed cabs for sale for a great price. If I go pine, I'll go with Bruce.

Lew, on the 4/8 ohm issue, I asked Bruce about that. He tells me that the transformer that was in your amp did sound better at 4 ohms, but there was some reason about that that escapes me. The upgraded trannies he put into my kit are supposed to handle the 8 ohms with ease. Bruce tells me it's using all the windings and he definitely recommends that I go with an 8 ohm speaker load in I go 15.

Now on speakers, I thought about having a JBL 15 rebuilt, but I cna get a Cali 15 ceramic for 100 bucks or so.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

I just got an email from Ted. He has some old JBL D130F's that he's refurbished for sale. 150 bucks verssus 220 for his Cali Alnico versus 105 for his Cali ceramic.

Hmm... I'll have ask ted another question.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Well, no need to get Vicky to build me a cab, Bruce has tweed cabs for sale for a great price. If I go pine, I'll go with Bruce.

Lew, on the 4/8 ohm issue, I asked Bruce about that. He tells me that the transformer that was in your amp did sound better at 4 ohms, but there was some reason about that that escapes me. The upgraded trannies he put into my kit are supposed to handle the 8 ohms with ease. Bruce tells me it's using all the windings and he definitely recommends that I go with an 8 ohm speaker load in I go 15.

Now on speakers, I thought about having a JBL 15 rebuilt, but I cna get a Cali 15 ceramic for 100 bucks or so.

That sounds "odd" to me. If your tranny is a 4 ohm tranny it performs best with a 4 ohm load. It's not a matter of causing damage or anything...just a matter of getting the most output and the best tone. Maybe the tranny Bruce provided has two taps: a 4 ohm tap and an 8 ohm tap? Maybe the 8 ohm tap is not being used and he expects you to now wire that tap to your speaker input and use it instead?

I dunno! I'll call him tommorrow and see if I can get an answer for you...and for me.

Lew

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

No, Lew, the really cool thing about his schematic is that he has had me wire it with a 4 ohm output and an 8 ohm output. The trannie is tapped. And he already accounted for it in the schematic. I have two outputs, one 4 ohm and one 8 ohm. Really cool shiit your brother is doing with this circuit. He also wired in a bias pot.

In addition, on the far left of the board, instead of one cap and one resistor in parallel running to one lead on the first preamp tube (where you jumper across to the other lead from there), he's got it split with two resistors and two caps running in parallel beside each other, each cap/res pair runs to its own lug on the V1 preamp tube. I've not messed with it too much, but it's just one more way he's made it more tweakable.

I ran that 5F4 thru two different 2x12's I have, one pair of Red Fangs, the other a pair of Texas Heats. The amp really sounds good through both of those. Just didn't hit me with the 2x10.

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the JBL D130F from Weber.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

I see. Well that all makes sense now. Sure: just use the 8 ohm tap and you're set to go! The JBL is a good choice too I think. That's the one I was rooting for! Congrats!

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

So Scott, I have a question for you: Why do you think Bruce isn't as famous or as well known as some of the other amp techs who are not as skilled and not as creative as Bruce is? What do you think he needs to do to become more well known? Because I think he's a frigging genius! Lew

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Well, for one, he needs a major website update. A little personal promotion never hurts. He's getting some credit on the Weber site for his designs.

It's a tough call on all that stuff. Gosh knows I'm talking him up. He's got some great kits. If he has original designs, there's just not much out there in the way of chatter on the net.

Like I said, part of it is that he needs a major website update for starters to show everyone what he has to offer. Then he needs to get a few more pimps like myself talking him up on some of the other boards. The bottom line is that he's got some really good things happening.

If he lived in LA or Austin, it'd also be a different story. Colorado ain't the hub of the music world.

 

[BachToRock]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

I'm with Lew on the earlier recommendation on an older EV 15"...
I have a Blackface Vibroverb and a Blonde Showman and they both are loaded with older Fender branded 15" EV's... TONE TO DIE FOR!
They are really hard to find and have the metal dustcap like JBL's...
The JBL's get a bit "ringy" in the high end to my ear...

Otherwise... you may want to check out the speaker Fender came up with for the Vibroverb reissue...

 

[Scott_F]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

I"ve already got a Weber Beam Blocker for a 15" speaker that I was going to use when I had the Vibroverb for a brief time. So, if the JBL gets a bit too bright, I'll tame it with that.

Ted Weber had an interesting comment to me last night. He said, you can get the Cali 15 Ceramic for 105 or the Cali 15 Alnico for 220. The amp probably doesn't produce enough wattage to pump up the Alnico cali so that's not going to be a good 220 spent. But, a reconed JBL D130F for 150 bucks will always be worth 150 bucks.

Great advice, huh?

How cool is that? If you want a JBL D130F, Ted has managed to get a few, they're reconed and ready to sell. No matter how much I like a lot of the new Eminence speakers, I LOVE dealing with Weber VST. Where else can you ask an intelligent question via email and normally get an intelligent response back within a few hours. Sometimes in minutes.

My favorite Weber story was where some kid ordered a new weber to drop into his DRRI. That was a good move. THe problem is that there's not much room. So instead of just unscrewing the baffle board and making it an easy installation, the kid goes for it, jamming a hole into the surround of the speaker, pretty much trashing it. He was complaining about his own stupidity on the FDP and Ted comes along and offers to fix it for free. *That* is customer service. I bought my first Weber shortly thereafter. I mght not have otherwise.

 

[Falstaff]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Scott, have you gotten a price on the cabinet yet?

Lew, I second Scott's theory on the website. Then again, Weber's is (for me) a bit hard to figure out as well.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Lew and other vintage Tweed Types

Lew, I second Scott's theory on the website. Then again, Weber's is (for me) a bit hard to figure out as well.

I think you're right. I'm going to hook Bruce up with Sef Phinney the guy who designed my website. Maybe give Bruce a website overhaul for Christmas!

Curly revised my website for me when Sef was unavailable for a few months, but he's available again and I'm going to have him overhaul my website too. I'm happy with most of it except for the Parts Page...that's way out of date and I have much better sources for parts than I did at the time the website was put togther several years ago.

Lew