Life with a mesa - an on going saga

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

UK Ant, when you're listening for your guitar in the mix, how far away from the cabinet are you listening? I don't know how big the stages are where you're playing, but listen a good 10 feet away to really hear what your cabinet is projecting (and make sure you EQ it from that listening position). I've seen lots of musicians EQ their amps when they're right on top of them and you can't get a good concept of how they're projecting unless you're farther back listening from the cone.

 

[phil_104]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

I was speaking earlier of the cab combo that could strip paint off the walls with the little 25 watter. Figured a picture would be of the order. I don't have this set up anymore, but it sounded really, really good.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Man, I don't get it. I have a 22 watt 1x12 combo and with the master vol on 4 I way overpower any drummer I've played with. At three, it hurts. I've never been able to turn it up past 5 without very good ear plugs (and I'm even 1/2 deaf), and that's standing right in front of it with the speaker at my feet.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

One other comment:

Back in the late 60's I used a bandmaster (40 watt) through 2 2x12 cabs loaded with JBL D130 spkrs. Played in venues of over 5000 and didn't have a problem being heard (many times being told that I was too loud, even).

I thought Mesa's were very conservative in their output ratings...loud for their wattage.

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

UK Ant, when you're listening for your guitar in the mix, how far away from the cabinet are you listening? I don't know how big the stages are where you're playing, but listen a good 10 feet away to really hear what your cabinet is projecting (and make sure you EQ it from that listening position). I've seen lots of musicians EQ their amps when they're right on top of them and you can't get a good concept of how they're projecting unless you're farther back listening from the cone.

I tend to wonder as far as possible around the room I'm in when sound checking (just one of the reasons I use a wireless system) So I'm not setting up blind to the rest of the room.
Still a good point to make as there's really not much point setting your sound while stood on top of your amp.

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Phil, those are killer looking cabs, well out of my price range atm mind (about £600, or the best part of a thousand US $).

Guitar Doc, cheers for the words, I suspect it's rather under sensitive speakers that are currently letting me down.
I'm going to investigate putting something better into the 1912, although that's already throwing out more than the 2x12.
Oddly I'm toying with the idea of a Eminence swamp thang... but that may just be the name

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Yeh, I did notice a big difference in loudness when I put in the JBL's...very efficient spkrs.

 

[cronnin]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Maybe something like this?

http://eminence.com/guitar_speaker_detail.asp?model=THEWIZARD&speaker_size=12&SUB_CAT_ID=4

 

[DesertRose]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

I hear alot of this eminence speakers.
Mesa came stock with black shadow speakers if I'm not wrong.
I thought it sounded loud and good already.
Maybe the speaker angle direction needs optimization

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

I hear alot of this eminence speakers.
Mesa came stock with black shadow speakers if I'm not wrong.
I thought it sounded loud and good already.
Maybe the speaker angle direction needs optimization

Ah, but I has the head, not the combo so I'm playing through dodgy marshall cabs

 

[cronnin]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

" Mesa call all their custom speakers 'Black Shadows'. It's been put on EVs, Celestions (though not the V30 for some reason, even though their version is no longer the same as the standard one) and Eminences.

It's based on Celestion's old G12-80 model from the 1980s - as is the Classic Lead 80, but the MC90 and CL80 aren't the same thing and don't sound the same (or the same as the old 80). "

 

[pinto79]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

16 Ohm amp output > 16 ohm cabinet

4 Ohm amp output > 4 Ohm cabinet

What would be difference in sound/volume?

if everything else was the same, no difference. At least not in a Tube amp.

 

[cronnin]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

if everything else was the same, no difference. At least not in a Tube amp.

But it can't deliver the same power for different output loads?

 

[pinto79]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

But it can't deliver the same power for different output loads?

That's what I meant, as long as your impedance is matched, a 50 watt amp will put out 50 watts. If you mis-match your impedance, you're going to let the smoke out of your amp which will help it to produce 0 watts. This goes for tube amps only, and exceptions do exist. Suffice to say, if you always match, your problems will be minimal.

If you have a Solid State amp that is rated at 100 watts @ 4 Ohms, the rule of thumb, is 50 watts into 8 ohms and 25 into 16 ohms, as the higher impedance prevents the amp from delivering full power.

I don't know the electronic theory behind this, it's just what I have managed to retain to make sure that I know what's going on when I hook up a PA or whatever.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

A lot of Mesa cabinets use Vintage 30s as well, so maybe there is something to having a speaker with some midrange in the mix with Mesas circuits?

 

[DesertRose]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Ah, but I has the head, not the combo so I'm playing through dodgy marshall cabs

oops my bad.

Ever tried other cabs?
You may wanna try ear mons ....

:naughty::naughty:

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

I'm wondering if you had an output impedance mismatch. Most Mesas have three speaker jacks: one 8 ohm and two 4 ohm jacks.

The single 8 ohm cab connects to the 8 ohm jack. A single 16 ohm cab would connect to the 8 ohm jack, but you will have an impedance mismatch, and your amp will not be able to produce it's full rated power. If you want to use a single 16 ohm cab, like a classic Marshall 412, you'll need to rewire the cab to 8 or 4 ohms.

With two 8 ohm cabs, plug them individually into each 4 ohm jack. With a single 4 ohm cab, plug it into a single 4 ohm jack.

Do not use two 4 ohm cabinets--your amp will try to produce more than its rated power and it will damage the amp.

Do refer to the Mesa Owner's manual. It's available in *.pdf format at mesaboogie.com.

Good luck.

Bill

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

I'm wondering if you had an output impedance mismatch. Most Mesas have three speaker jacks: one 8 ohm and two 4 ohm jacks.

The single 8 ohm cab connects to the 8 ohm jack. A single 16 ohm cab would connect to the 8 ohm jack, but you will have an impedance mismatch, and your amp will not be able to produce it's full rated power. If you want to use a single 16 ohm cab, like a classic Marshall 412, you'll need to rewire the cab to 8 or 4 ohms.

With two 8 ohm cabs, plug them individually into each 4 ohm jack. With a single 4 ohm cab, plug it into a single 4 ohm jack.

Do not use two 4 ohm cabinets--your amp will try to produce more than its rated power and it will damage the amp.

Do refer to the Mesa Owner's manual. It's available in *.pdf format at mesaboogie.com.

Good luck.

Bill

No, I've not got an Impedance problem.
two 8ohm cabs, so either one in the 8, or both in the pair of 4 ohm outputs.
Speaker sensitivity seems to be the key factor.
Hmm, time for a different post of speaker sensitivity.

 

[cronnin]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Just like you described. It's hard to make a mistake:

Is there any chance you accidentaly flipped the switch into 5W mode?

 

[Uk Ant]

Re: Life with a mesa - an on going saga

Just like you described. It's hard to make a mistake:

Is there any chance you accidentaly flipped the switch into 5W mode?

Checked and double checked.

I mean, it's still very loud, it really is. Just not quite loud enough.