Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

[lp_gem]

went into a big music shop here in perth and picked up 3 or 4 brand new les pauls and noticed they were all very light,, i didnt get a chance to plug them in but i gave them a strum unplugged and the sound seemed kind of "shallow"

what do you guys reckon? you rekon gibson are using poorer quality, younger mahogany these days in their cookie cutter les pauls?

its been a while since ive picked up a cookie cutter LP and found it awesome, the last few ive plugged in sounded either bright and harsh or wooly and dead, no way worth 3-4000AUD

i remember playing a couple custom shop 56 and 57 reissues which sounded awesome though.. 7000AUD ouch

 

[Innocent_Bystander]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

I would have to say that I've noticed the exact opposite as of late. The regular LP's are sort of heavy and the Custom Shop stuff is suprisingly light.

As far as sound, I don't know. I've always noticed that some play well while others don't and they never sound the same when you get them home. :laugh2:

 

[Robbiedbee]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

The last Gibby I played was very light compared to my Epiphone, I agree.

 

[Wattage]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

Gibson is trying to mix it up and give players a choice. For a longtime all you could get were boat anchors, it was extremely rare to find a lightweight. Nowdays you can go in and play a half a dozen LPs and get a decent choice of a light, middle or heavy weight, that wasn't the case for a long time. I say it is Gibson listening to what people want. The weight relief holes contribute to the lighter guitars I am sure but since I can't X-Ray mine to find out I don't know for sure.

My current "cookie cutter" LP weighs a tick over 8 lbs plays and sounds tremendous. I have certainly played some nicer ones but I love this guitar.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

Hmm...I've noticed the opposite...weight going up...historic or production.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

For a long time, Gibson hasn't cared about the wood quality. They've used wet woods, new wood, whatever. Everyone should learn sooner than later that they are all about the money, and the money only. They don't have the romantic relationship you or I have with guitars. So even if they do start using fine cuts, the decision would be rooted in money.

That doesn't mean you can't get a great guitar from them! But you have to divorce yourself from the romance, and just play 10-20 of them to find your favorite. Personally, a heavy LP represents a lousier, less resonant piece of Mahogany, and perhaps more moisture content, neither are what I want. So I would seek out a lighter paul, but to me the weight reduced ones are like owning a lie. Gibson lied to you when they gave you a weight relieved LP. It gave them a chance to use all those heavy pieces of crap Mahogany and charge for the weight relief. Again, it might be a great guitar in the end, but weight relief is a marketing term (as is most of their vernacular) for "you've told us LP's are getting heavy, we listened. But rather that get better cuts, we'll just drill these out."

 

[Tom M]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

I played a handful last weekend. The best of the bunch was a Goldtop Classic model. It was very light, and very loud. All the Standards, Customs, and other Classics in the store didn't hold a candle to this one.

 

[Innocent_Bystander]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

For a long time, Gibson hasn't cared about the wood quality. They've used wet woods, new wood, whatever. Everyone should learn sooner than later that they are all about the money, and the money only. They don't have the romantic relationship you or I have with guitars. So even if they do start using fine cuts, the decision would be rooted in money.

That doesn't mean you can't get a great guitar from them! But you have to divorce yourself from the romance, and just play 10-20 of them to find your favorite. Personally, a heavy LP represents a lousier, less resonant piece of Mahogany, and perhaps more moisture content, neither are what I want. So I would seek out a lighter paul, but to me the weight reduced ones are like owning a lie. Gibson lied to you when they gave you a weight relieved LP. It gave them a chance to use all those heavy pieces of crap Mahogany and charge for the weight relief. Again, it might be a great guitar in the end, but weight relief is a marketing term (as is most of their vernacular) for "you've told us LP's are getting heavy, we listened. But rather that get better cuts, we'll just drill these out."

I've never had to play 10-20 Gibson products to find a "good" one. Maybe it's because the store I go to has a very good relationship with the Gibson rep. It's seems like 98% of the Gibsons they get are top notch.

They also have a very tight stock and people who know how to properly set up a guitar. They also keep everything in the store in tune as much as humanly possible. These big suppliers hang the nice guitars 20' off the ground and never seem to touch them, even when you ask about one. There is only so much neglect an instrument can take before it goes to crap.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

My 1986 Les Paul Custom is 8 lbs- one of the lightest Les Pauls I've played. I did play a used 2003 Les Paul Standard at a guitar store a few years ago that was as light as a Parker Fly- I plugged it into a Fender amp and it had the brightest tone of any Les Paul I've ever played, almost like a telecaster. Would've bought it but the finish was melted- it looked like nail polish remover was spilled on it

 

[JeffB]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

yeah they could get better, lighter cuts of wood...then the price goes up even more...cos they will have to pay more..in actual $ and/or time finding/sorting through it. With the #s of instruments they produce, this just isn't feasible from a business standpoint.

And I've heard "bad" wood from small companies whom supposedly do all kinds of hand picking through it. It's a hard to control variable.

I think your avg. production paula is a good sounding instrument. There is a small percentage of really great sounding ones, and a small percentage of dogs...I'd say its something like 80/10/10.

That 80% can really benefit from new pots and a pup swap to address whatever the individual instruments tonal deficiency/strengh is. The really good ones will sound great stock and can be improved further again with pups/pots, though I personally like the BB pros when set correctly.

The dogs are bets left for high gain pups and super high gain amps where the tone sucks anyways :laugh2:

 

[TattooedCarrot]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

The weight relief holes contribute to the lighter guitars I am sure but since I can't X-Ray mine to find out I don't know for sure.

There are nine (9) weight relief holes in production LP Standards, yours has them.

I have noticed the opposite; most standards are in the 9+ lbs range anymore. I had a recent faded standard that was in the high 8's and that was impressive for a production standard; I think the lack of finishing had to do with it.

The lighter woods are more desirable, and more expensive. Good mahogany is getting harder to come by anymore so the lighter stuff is usually reserved for the custom shop and higher end historics.

IMO any recent production Les Pauls that are light are most likely going to be attributed to weight relief holes, and luck.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

I've never had to play 10-20 Gibson products to find a "good" one. Maybe it's because the store I go to has a very good relationship with the Gibson rep. It's seems like 98% of the Gibsons they get are top notch.

They also have a very tight stock and people who know how to properly set up a guitar.....These big suppliers.....neglect.....crap.

:no: I didn't say 10-20 to find a good one, I said "favorite" and yes, the store & local rep have a lot to do with it. A good shop isn't afraid to send stuff back if it's not up to par. Their selection will be far better. Big box stores take whatever is shipped to them and toss it up on the wall, right out of the box.

:smack:

 

[Innocent_Bystander]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

:no: I didn't say 10-20 to find a good one, I said "favorite" and yes, the store & local rep have a lot to do with it. A good shop isn't afraid to send stuff back if it's not up to par. Their selection will be far better. Big box stores take whatever is shipped to them and toss it up on the wall, right out of the box.

:smack:

Sorry, didn't want to sound like I was calling you out on that. I was more getting at the fact that large suppliers stink when it comes to what their stock offers. I apologize if that came off as cocky.

I think a lot of people tend to shop at those large suppliers because they thing they're the cheapest price or have the best selection and I think that's where most of these manufacturers get their bad rep. You can't pull a guitar out of the box, slap it on the wall for 6 months and expect it to play like butter and it seems like that's what they do.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

You can't pull a guitar out of the box, slap it on the wall for 6 months and expect it to play like butter and it seems like that's what they do.

So true...We had a little cold snap here last week...got down around 40 degrees for 2 nights...I usually have my windows open.. all 3 of my guitars went FUBAR just from that....Had to readjust the necks on all 3.

Let one sit on a shelf half a year....heat on during business hours....heat off at night......AC on during business hours...AC off at night...guess whats gonna happen?

 

[jdm61]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

a while back, somebody posted a pic from the woodshop at Gibson. The had slabs of wood marked by weight and what they would be used in. Story was that the lightest and best wood went on the R9's and other super expensive Custom shop guitars that are not weight relieved. My R9 is VERY light.....like medium to heavy Tele or Strat light. Even the guy who runs the custom shop at Dean and who is also a Gibson alumni, commented on how light it was. My R7 not so much and my '54 Csutoms even less so.

 

[jdm61]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

Sorry, didn't want to sound like I was calling you out on that. I was more getting at the fact that large suppliers stink when it comes to what their stock offers. I apologize if that came off as cocky.

I think a lot of people tend to shop at those large suppliers because they thing they're the cheapest price or have the best selection and I think that's where most of these manufacturers get their bad rep. You can't pull a guitar out of the box, slap it on the wall for 6 months and expect it to play like butter and it seems like that's what they do.

Nowadays, you find big traders on Ebay that seem to be much better at getting really good Gibsons than GC or MF and they charge less. Beleive it or not, that is where I got my R9. Luck or a seller who knows what to look for? I ain't asking......i think he was hijacking trucks outside of Nashville and selling the inferior guitars to GC on the sligh:chairfall

 

[Innocent_Bystander]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

Nowadays, you find big traders on Ebay that seem to be much better at getting really good Gibsons than GC or MF and they charge less. Beleive it or not, that is where I got my R9. Luck or a seller who knows what to look for? I ain't asking......i think he was hijacking trucks outside of Nashville and selling the inferior guitars to GC on the sligh:chairfall

I buy all of my guitars from a small shop near where I live. They're a pretty big Gibson dealer in the scheme of things, even with being a fairly small store. I can basically get just about any Gibson for 10-15% less than Musicians Friend.

MF sells the '57 vos for $2800, I got mine for $2400 with no tax and they got Gibson to send basically what the feel is the best one they had in stock. Whether it is or not, it's a beautiful guitar that played perfectly out of the box. Best of all it only takes 2-3 days to get it! I hate to wait! :laugh2:

Man I love those guys. :friday:

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

being that i'm more of a super strat guy i always hunt for light pauls. my latest one is just a killer guitar that i'm so happy wih. premium plus top and only 8.6lbs so playing it for long periods is no problem. i've played more pauls than i can remember trying to find good ones and they seem to be all across the board from real light to average to guitars that you need a fork lift to hold up.

speaking of light pauls, i was just e-mailing an ebay seller about a paul he has for sale and i asked the weight. i nearly fell out of my chair when he told me..."it's around 7lbs". now that's real damn light for a paul. makes me even more tempted to buy it now LOL.

-Mike

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

I'll be honest. I've stopped caring about nitpicking the details, and find that the more guitars I've had, the more I just appreciate the differences between them all. Sometimes, I have to stand back, do a reality check, and just count my lucky stars that I have two hands, a musical mind, and enough resources to even have the guitars I'm lucky enough to have.

I'm as guilty as anyone of splitting hairs on details, but in the grand scheme of things, I look at my 16 guitars lined up in a row, and couldn't give a crap if some are lighter and some are heavier. Once they're all setup to play great, have pickups that I love, and fresh strings, the things like weight mean less and less to me. For instance, my very favorite Les Paul is my least expensive one, and also the heaviest one. My favorite strat happens to be my lightest one, and cost $1000 less than some of the best strats I've had. I still like it better.

I'm much pickier about things like amp tone and OD pedals, I think. Guitars are just tools or toys I grab at for different tones.

 

[omboy]

Re: Light lespauls,, whats the deal?

nicked from a thread at the Les Paul Forum