Lil 59 in tele

[cvn72]

The lil 59 sounds great...lot of paf sound for its size and the guitar it's in, 89 Tele Standard American with tbx tone control.

Switching;
Back position: sounds as expected
Front position: original neck pup sounds as expected

Middle position: sound exactly like the neck position only!

Checked wiring diagrams, spot on (original ally had to switch green/black 59 pup wires cuz of phasing)

Any thoughts why I am not getting good a "mix" in the middle position?

Thanks

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Did u tap on the bridge pickup while in middle position?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

DCR of a Lil'59 is upwards of 17.5K. You didn't mention what you have at the neck, but the DCR of any normal Tele neck pickup will be will be far lower than that. So in middle position most of the juice will be taking the path of least resistance through the neck pickup with very little flowing through the bridge. Autosplitting the Lil'59 in middle position would bring the DCRs closer and probably help to even out the balance.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Or, auto parallel-ing, too. That would probably give you a better mix of positions. Also, try playing with the pickup height, too. It is amazing to me how that affects the tone of both pickups on together. Tiny adjustments make a big difference.

 

[cvn72]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Thanks guys, gona tap and try hright adjust tonight

Then I guess it's the Greek wiring mentioned lol

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Or, auto parallel-ing, too. That would probably give you a better mix of positions. Also, try playing with the pickup height, too. It is amazing to me how that affects the tone of both pickups on together. Tiny adjustments make a big difference.

I had thought about suggesting auto-parallel, since the Lil'59 sounds really good in parallel. But I think for middle position the OP might wind up with an impedance mismatch that gave the opposite of his present issue, ie mostly bridge and not enough neck.

 

[cvn72]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

DCR of a Lil'59 is upwards of 17.5K. You didn't mention what you have at the neck, but the DCR of any normal Tele neck pickup will be will be far lower than that. So in middle position most of the juice will be taking the path of least resistance through the neck pickup with very little flowing through the bridge. Autosplitting the Lil'59 in middle position would bring the DCRs closer and probably help to even out the balance.

So I did this..via this link
https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/teles/2-pickup-teles#TeleSHSplit

3-Way HS Tele with Bridge Single Coil in Position 2


And, the humbucker got a lil quiet, middle position was really thin and half volume, and, neck position was fine.
Unless someone has a better idea, I am going to switch it back to normal and just deal with it. Thanks for the help fellas.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

If bridge position got quiet, something was not right. Autosplit configurations should leave your bridge tone unchanged, and only affect the sound in middle position.

 

[Artie]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

DCR of a Lil'59 is upwards of 17.5K. You didn't mention what you have at the neck, but the DCR of any normal Tele neck pickup will be will be far lower than that. So in middle position most of the juice will be taking the path of least resistance through the neck pickup with very little flowing through the bridge. Autosplitting the Lil'59 in middle position would bring the DCRs closer and probably help to even out the balance.

Ummm . . . this is just wrong.

First of all, electricity does not take the path of least resistance. I wish we could make this old folklore go away. Think about it. I f I connect a 1 meg resistor and a 100 ohm resistor in parallel, current won't flow through the 1 Meg? The correct rule is, electricity will flow everywhere it can.

Secondly, the pickups are the AC voltage generator. The higher value Lil 59 will most probably generate more voltage than the neck pup.

I just repaired a customers Tele yesterday, with this same symptom. It was just a jumper on the 3-way in the wrong place.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

If the neck pickup is a Fender, it is likely it is out of phase with the Little 59.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Ummm . . . this is just wrong.

First of all, electricity does not take the path of least resistance. I wish we could make this old folklore go away. Think about it. I f I connect a 1 meg resistor and a 100 ohm resistor in parallel, current won't flow through the 1 Meg? The correct rule is, electricity will flow everywhere it can.

Secondly, the pickups are the AC voltage generator. The higher value Lil 59 will most probably generate more voltage than the neck pup.

I just repaired a customers Tele yesterday, with this same symptom. It was just a jumper on the 3-way in the wrong place.

Thanks Artie; your knowledge & advice is always appreciated, especially when it's correcting a misapprehension. I'd just assumed that in parallel more current would run through the lower resistance leg, and thought that was making the neck louder. I admit I still get mixed up between current and voltage in these things.

The fact remains that I have a few guitars with higher output bridge pickups where in middle position the neck pickup tends to dominate (instead of the bridge which is louder by itself than the neck is). Not sure what's going on there but it's something I've noticed for years. I know it isn't as simple as height adjustment, and it isn't noticeable on every guitar with a hot bridge, which makes it even more confusing. I had attributed this to some electronic factor, and eventually came to the mistaken assumption that impedance mismatch was the culprit. I'd love to know what's really going on there.

 

[Artie]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

I admit I still get mixed up between current and voltage in these things.

Use the "water hose" analogy. Voltage is pressure. Current is capacity. A squirt gun has high "voltage", low capacity. A garden hose has higher capacity, lower "voltage". A sewer pipe is extreme low "voltage". Extreme high "current".

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Use the "water hose" analogy. Voltage is pressure. Current is capacity. A squirt gun has high "voltage", low capacity. A garden hose has higher capacity, lower "voltage". A sewer pipe is extreme low "voltage". Extreme high "current".

Then resistance affects voltage but not current? & impedance affects current but not voltage? I think I'm starting to get it- never quite understood what the difference was between those two.

 

[Artie]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Then resistance affects voltage but not current?

The exact opposite. Resistance "resists" current flow. The voltage drop is a side affect.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

The exact opposite. Resistance "resists" current flow. The voltage drop is a side affect.

Gotcha. Thanks Artie.

 

[cvn72]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Ummm . . . this is just wrong.

First of all, electricity does not take the path of least resistance. I wish we could make this old folklore go away. Think about it. I f I connect a 1 meg resistor and a 100 ohm resistor in parallel, current won't flow through the 1 Meg? The correct rule is, electricity will flow everywhere it can.

Secondly, the pickups are the AC voltage generator. The higher value Lil 59 will most probably generate more voltage than the neck pup.

I just repaired a customers Tele yesterday, with this same symptom. It was just a jumper on the 3-way in the wrong place.

So, going by the SD diagram above that I linked to, and followed, how would I fix that problem with the jumper?

 

[cvn72]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

If the neck pickup is a Fender, it is likely it is out of phase with the Little 59.

When I first put in the lil 59, I had phase issue also. So I just switched the black and green wires. Problem fixed.

Now with the auto split, the black and green both go to same lug on the switch, SD diagram linked to above.

So how do I now fix phase with that in mind?

Thanks

 

[cvn72]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

I think I picked the wrong one of the auto split with humbucker. Gonna try the other and let ya know. Split to outer coil in Position 2 instead of inner coil.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7440801/Guitar Wiring/TeleHSSplitOut.jpg

 

[cvn72]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

I also used a bigger wire for my jumper, nor the thin little pup wire...will that affect anything?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[AlexR]

Re: Lil 59 in tele

Any wire that allows good connections on the lugs is fine. For the level of signal passing through, its like having 3 cars on a 10,000 lane highway vs pickup wire being like 3 cars on a 100 lane highway. No issue either way.