Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

[Stolysmaster]

I was looking for a pickup to get as close to a PAF sound as possible utilizing the narrow and close coil spacing of a standard Strat size pickup. I tried the Little 59 and was amazed at how mid rangy, and muddy it is. I am considering a Cool Rails, but after I resold the Litlle 59 I began to wonder what it would sound like in parallel mode. Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

neck or bridge version? neither is all that paf like but there are plenty of reasons for that. i think the neck version in the bridge sounds more like a paf than the bridge. its brighter and more open in parallel for sure

 

[TVFV]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

What pot values were you running with it?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[thanaton]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

I was looking for a pickup to get as close to a PAF sound as possible utilizing the narrow and close coil spacing of a standard Strat size pickup. I tried the Little 59 and was amazed at how mid rangy, and muddy it is. I am considering a Cool Rails, but after I resold the Litlle 59 I began to wonder what it would sound like in parallel mode. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I'm sorry that the name of the product mislead you. It's hard to believe they actually market that product as sounding anything like the '59.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

I was looking for a pickup to get as close to a PAF sound as possible utilizing the narrow and close coil spacing of a standard Strat size pickup. I tried the Little 59 and was amazed at how mid rangy, and muddy it is. I am considering a Cool Rails, but after I resold the Litlle 59 I began to wonder what it would sound like in parallel mode. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Agreed. The Little 59 is no more like the 59 Model than the JB Jr is like the JB. They aren't bad products, just some marketing issues. I like the Little 59, perhaps because it was laid out to me for what it is before I tried it.

If you think it's muddy, then do plenty of research before the Cool Rails. You might like it in parallel or split, but I never cared for the Cool Rails...although others do.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

You won't get a PAF sound out of any single sized pickup. Coil geometry rules it out, as does the amount of string window above the pickup

 

[htwheelz67]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

You won't get a PAF sound out of any single sized pickup. Coil geometry rules it out, as does the amount of string window above the pickup

I beg to differ, maybe not paf sound but fat humbucker sound, try a dimarzio tone zone s.......I had the same problem in a thinline tele I have, tried the lil 59 first and blah and tried many others even hot rails and almost sold the guitar on a whim I tried the tone zone T and wired it with series/split/parallel options and it has become one of my favorite guitars. The tone zone sc sized humbuckers are the only ones I have tried that have a true humbucker tone and clarity to boot. I also use a .001mf cap for a treble bleed so when you turn it down it keeps the highs, 500k pots are what you want as well.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

^ This I feel is the same sort of thing as Strat + humbucker can't quite get a LP tone. There are ways of getting close to certain tones.....and the high output TZ will be one of the areas where you can approximate.
Low output is harder as there are parameters which cannot be overcome simply by overwinding.

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

You won't get a PAF sound out of any single sized pickup. Coil geometry rules it out, as does the amount of string window above the pickup

Pretty aware of that, thanks. That's why I wrote"as close as possible..."

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

What pot values were you running with it?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

250K pots, for two reasons, 1) I read on another forum that the Little 59 was designed to work with 250K pots (don't know if that is true or not). And 2) 500K pots will not sound right with the Lace Sensor Emeralds that I have in the neck and bridge positions.

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

I wonder if I would get better results with the custom shop Pearly Gates SC neck version, but use it in the bridge slot.??

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

I beg to differ, maybe not paf sound but fat humbucker sound, try a dimarzio tone zone s.......I had the same problem in a thinline tele I have, tried the lil 59 first and blah and tried many others even hot rails and almost sold the guitar on a whim I tried the tone zone T and wired it with series/split/parallel options and it has become one of my favorite guitars. The tone zone sc sized humbuckers are the only ones I have tried that have a true humbucker tone and clarity to boot. I also use a .001mf cap for a treble bleed so when you turn it down it keeps the highs, 500k pots are what you want as well.

The Dimarzio Tone Zone just seems way too hot, based on the specs and tone chart for what I am looking for. However, I have not tried one, so you could be correct. It just does not look like it "on paper".

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

^ This I feel is the same sort of thing as Strat + humbucker can't quite get a LP tone. There are ways of getting close to certain tones.....and the high output TZ will be one of the areas where you can approximate.
Low output is harder as there are parameters which cannot be overcome simply by overwinding.

Agree, you can replicate EQ, but it seems harder to get dynamic character and response cloned when you try to make a single sound like a humbucker or the opposite; seems like you always compromise a bit of something else the closer you try to get to the other extreme.

...That said. Hot Rails can do a convincing "humbucker" in the right guitar, albeit not vintage-voiced.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

250K pots, for two reasons, 1) I read on another forum that the Little 59 was designed to work with 250K pots

This is of course false.

500K pots will not sound right with the Lace Sensor Emeralds that I have in the neck and bridge positions.

??? you wanted PAF sound from the middle p'up of a strat? Now I understand your frustration... you were asking something that's simply impossible to achieve.

 

[htwheelz67]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

Are you looking at the tone zone s? I can tell you it is not too hot, the DCR is very close to the little 59 but dont look at DCR as a measure as how hot a pickup is, windings, wire guage,balanced or unbalanced coils, the way they are wound play much more of a factor. Look at mv and henries if they are listed. The last pup I tried before it was a hot rails it was ballsy but got muddy real quick, the tone zone has the balls but it also has great clarity, it is also VERY sensitive to height adjustment but when you find the sweet spot you will know it, it also sounds great in parallel almost more single coil than in split mode. Like I said 500k pots, 3 way mini toggle (series/split/parallel) and a .001mf cap on the volume for a treble bleed. I have a strat and tele with the TZ (s) and (T) and they sound phenominal nothing like a full sized tone zone which I'm not really fond of.

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

This is of course false.

??? you wanted PAF sound from the middle p'up of a strat? Now I understand your frustration... you were asking something that's simply impossible to achieve.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I am looking for something in the BRIDGE position that will get me as close to a PAF sound as possible using a single coil size. The fact that I have Lace Sensor Emeralds in the neck and middle positions has nothing to do with what I want from the BRIDGE position. I only mentioned those positions regarding why I am not wanting to switch out the 250K volume pot.

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

Are you looking at the tone zone s? I can tell you it is not too hot, the DCR is very close to the little 59 but dont look at DCR as a measure as how hot a pickup is, windings, wire guage,balanced or unbalanced coils, the way they are wound play much more of a factor. Look at mv and henries if they are listed. The last pup I tried before it was a hot rails it was ballsy but got muddy real quick, the tone zone has the balls but it also has great clarity, it is also VERY sensitive to height adjustment but when you find the sweet spot you will know it, it also sounds great in parallel almost more single coil than in split mode. Like I said 500k pots, 3 way mini toggle (series/split/parallel) and a .001mf cap on the volume for a treble bleed. I have a strat and tele with the TZ (s) and (T) and they sound phenominal nothing like a full sized tone zone which I'm not really fond of.

Based on your input, I might try the SC sized Tone Zone with a 500K volume pot. But I have reservations as to how the 500K pot will sound with the Lace Emeralds in the neck and middle slots. It might be too bright sounding for them, and muddy the Laces up when I turn down the volume. I have NEVER had good results using a treble bleed circuit.

 

[Stolysmaster]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

So, based on what I can discern so far; either a Dimarzio SC sized Tone Zone or a Duncan Little 59 NECK version look like they might work for what I want in the bridge position. And I'm now leaning towards the TZ, as recommended by htwheelz67. He is absolutely correct that DCR does not tell the whole story on a pickup, based on my own experience with many, many full sized humbuckers! I really appreciate the input thus far. Any more comments are certainly welcome before I make a decision. Thanks!

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

neck or bridge version? neither is all that paf like but there are plenty of reasons for that. i think the neck version in the bridge sounds more like a paf than the bridge. its brighter and more open in parallel for sure

Yep, the lil 59N sounds much better in the bridge than the actual bridge model IMHO!!! It probably sounds closer to a real PAF than the bridge but I'd have to agree that neither of them are exactly PAF clones? Unfortunately you can voice a Strat sized bladebucker to be PAF-ish but in the end the only way to get a Strat to sound exactly like a old Les Paul is to put it down & buy a L.P.! There's a lot of variables that go "that tone" & your not going to get it just by popping in a different pup?

 

[thanaton]

Re: Little 59 sounds NOTHING like a PAF!

The neck should sound closer, since both the neck and the bridge Little' 59 have lower resonant peaks than a full sized '59 set, but the Little '59 neck pickup's peak is not quite as low as the bridge.