Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

[chadd]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

A head that is 30" wide, 9" high, and weighs 50 pounds, is ridiculous in my opinion.

You would absolutely hate my Mesa Road King.

 

[pacho]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I have marshalls in 4 sizes: Class 5 (5W), Studio 15 (15W), Vintage Modern (36W) and JCM800 Bass (50W). At full throttle JCM800 sounds best, but you have to move to another room. VM comes second when turned up past 75% but it's too loud for rehearsals in small room even with pasionate drummer. Studio 15 has very nice sound and sits great in the mix. Class 5 is too silent.
What I want to say is that it all depends on the room. Most people don't play stadiums. I love cranked EL34 or KT66 but at acceptable volumes my dual 6V6 Studio sounds best with band at "normal" volumes and I can crank it (have to use 96dB greenbacks anyway). When I jam with guitarist only and want to let my ears rest, I use single EL84 Class 5. Never tried attenuators though..

I think there will be more small amps coming in the future since they sound best at the volumes guitarist usually play and most manufacturers have been working on downsized amps recently so they have more and more experience

 

[Artie]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

. . . or ALL cars in the future being Automatic ONLY !!!

Its even worse than that. The hot new trend is cars that drive themselves. You, the owner, are a passive component.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

Its even worse than that. The hot new trend is cars that drive themselves. You, the owner, are a passive component.

Now that is just sad !

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I totally get the small amp thing. I recently played two shows for the first time in 15 years. The lead guitar player in one of the other bands always played half stacks back then. He showed up with a little Hiwatt 1x12 combo. It sounded HUGE when they played. He sounded better, thicker.
Granted, the place had a great sound system, but it was still enough to change my thinking on the whole small amps thing.

I am always confused by the many comments I see about guitarists micing "these days," though? I played out constantly from around 1986 until around 2001 and practically every bar or club we played, no matter how small, miced up all the amps without even asking. And every show I went to, the guitar amps were always miced. Who, or where, were all these guys running wide open and not through the pa??

 

[Sirion]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I don't think 100w amps are going away. Manufactures continue to release new models and they seem to be compensating for reduced volumes by engineering them sound better at lower volumes. Using Mesa as an example, they've recently released two 100w models (King Snake and JP2C). Both are multi-watt (10/60/100 and 60/100 respectively). Their most recent amps feature a mix of power scaling, pentode/triode, Class A/AB switching, built in attenuators and variac in an effort produce better sound at lower volumes.

Further, the 15/30w TransAtlantic was discontinued yet the Triple Rectifier is still in production. They've discontinued the 20/20 and 50/50 power amps while the 2:90 is still in production. The JP2C is designed to have more headroom than the Mark V. If they're still making it there must be a market.

If anything, I think small, low powered amps are eating away at the solid state and modelling markets. You go back 15 years ago and the average budget guitarist was using a Peavey Classic 30 or a Fender HRD with some distortion pedals. These days you can not only buy amps like a Tiny Terror, Nighttrain, but also the big name amps that everyone actually wants.... Marshall, 5150, Soldano, Mesa, etc.

Think for a moment.... When was the last time you saw a thread about a Line 6 amp? Crate? Marshall AVT?

Further, small amps continue to suffer the same problem they've always suffered.... they sound great, up to a point. And past that point you find yourself wishing you had more headroom. I think that's why on one end you're seeing manufacturers trying to make 30w amps sound better when turned up loud, whilst simultaneously making 100w amps that don't necessarily put out a full 100w.

This sounds just about right. It probably also eats away at the mid-size combo market, since there are so many more opportunities offered by a small tube amp and 1x12 or 2x12 cabinet. These were around 15 years ago, but really seem to have become commonly used only with the advent of mini amps. My first real amp was a Crate Vintage Club 50 amp which has pretty much been gathering dust for a decade now. Back then it was a very decent and economic compromise between an entry-level combo and a half-stack. Today I wouldn't have given it any time, but rather bought a mini amp and a smaller cabinet.

Larger stacks will still have a place, owing both to tradition, qualities perceived and real, and guitarists' vanity – the last certainly the most reliable factor of the three.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

Its even worse than that. The hot new trend is cars that drive themselves. You, the owner, are a passive component.

The real question is, can you still be charged with D.U. I. if you are in one while it's driving you home from the bar?

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[Mincer]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

As long as the rock n roll dream is alive, and we see iconic images with rows of stacks behind the band, the 100 watt amp will still be made. However, I don't want to play in a band with that onstage. I don't want to carry one, and I don't want to listen to me or another guitarist play through it all night. For the last several years, I try to get my rig down to the smallest amount of stuff possible, and what can take up the smallest amount of space, so those are out. They look cool, and sound amazing, but I won't listen to it all night.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I am always confused by the many comments I see about guitarists micing "these days," though? I played out constantly from around 1986 until around 2001 and practically every bar or club we played, no matter how small, miced up all the amps without even asking. And every show I went to, the guitar amps were always miced. Who, or where, were all these guys running wide open and not through the pa??

I have played several gigs when it was just vocals through the rather limited PA. In these situations I was rarely playing the amp flat out though.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I have marshalls in 4 sizes: Class 5 (5W), Studio 15 (15W), Vintage Modern (36W) and JCM800 Bass (50W). At full throttle JCM800 sounds best, but you have to move to another room. VM comes second when turned up past 75% but it's too loud for rehearsals in small room even with pasionate drummer. Studio 15 has very nice sound and sits great in the mix. Class 5 is too silent.
What I want to say is that it all depends on the room. Most people don't play stadiums. I love cranked EL34 or KT66 but at acceptable volumes my dual 6V6 Studio sounds best with band at "normal" volumes and I can crank it (have to use 96dB greenbacks anyway). When I jam with guitarist only and want to let my ears rest, I use single EL84 Class 5. Never tried attenuators though..

I think there will be more small amps coming in the future since they sound best at the volumes guitarist usually play and most manufacturers have been working on downsized amps recently so they have more and more experience

That sounds about right by my experience. However, I made an interesting observation yesterday when I noticed that someone parked a 1x12 combo right in (front) of my Marshall 4x12 cab. That 1x12 combo amp is 2/3 the size of the 4x12! And it weighs 50 lbs. And the 4x12 sounds better side by side with the same amp running through either cab.

Another interesting observation yesterday, was when I plugged into a DSL 15 run through a Greenback loaded 2x12. Sounded pretty darn good. But then I made the mistake of plugging into my 50 watt Jubilee. The Jube sounded way bigger even at manageable volume. Would the Jube still sound bigger than a DSL 50? Maybe, but the 50 watt Jube can fill the same niche of the 15 watt amp. Totally cranked, the 15 watt sounded almost as big and as toneful but it was way too loud by then.

 

[pacho]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

On wednesday I loaded my 2x12 Marshall cab with G12C greenbacks. The cab is mid 70's 2196 - 4x12 size. These greenbacks are 16 ohm so finally I could plug my Studio 15 (8 ohm only) into bigger cab. Holy $%&# it sounded so BIG. We could compare it to Marshall 6101 combo at 50W and both had similar punch. Of course these are different animals but you couldn't say the smaller one was lacking! I guess it's not about big power - you need good amp and BIG cab.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

That sounds about right by my experience. However, I made an interesting observation yesterday when I noticed that someone parked a 1x12 combo right in (front) of my Marshall 4x12 cab. That 1x12 combo amp is 2/3 the size of the 4x12! And it weighs 50 lbs. And the 4x12 sounds better side by side with the same amp running through either cab.

Another interesting observation yesterday, was when I plugged into a DSL 15 run through a Greenback loaded 2x12. Sounded pretty darn good. But then I made the mistake of plugging into my 50 watt Jubilee. The Jube sounded way bigger even at manageable volume. Would the Jube still sound bigger than a DSL 50? Maybe, but the 50 watt Jube can fill the same niche of the 15 watt amp. Totally cranked, the 15 watt sounded almost as big and as toneful but it was way too loud by then.

If you want an example of this, look at Soundgarden.

Kim Thayil is running a 100w Tremoverb 2x12 combo and a 90w Electra Dyne into a 4x12 (or two).

Chris Cornell is running a pair of Savage Rohr 15 1x12 combos and a /13 FTR37 (in 15w mode) into a 2x12.

If you watch one of their rig rundowns the guitar tech talks about the crew having more issues with Cornell's volume than Thayil's.

 

[pacho]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

Probably Mr Cornell likes power tube distortion..

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

https://www.facebook.com/rigsofdoom/?fref=ts&ref=br_tf&qsefr=1 <---- :firedevil

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I have no idea what y'all are taking about here.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

. . . ^ ^ ^ thats the spirit !

 

[NjuiMusic]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I don't think so. The volume difference between 15 watts and 100 watts is not very big.

The options are also much more apparent on larger amps, more channels, selectable wattage, etc.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

I have no idea what y'all are taking about here.

View attachment 75360

Haha, I bet most are fake, or covering up the headlining bands' equipment. But that stage seems claustrophobic to me.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

Never used anything smaller than 30 watts live. Soundman loves me actually. Said I "understand how (this) works"

I truly detest having to play at fart volumes, but I'm not a fan of drowning out everybody else in a small venue, so as long as I can hear myself play through the amp and the monitors, I'm happy.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Little watt vs. BIG watt. Mesa Boogie and everyone else.

Haha, I bet most are fake, or covering up the headlining bands' equipment. But that stage seems claustrophobic to me.

Mic'd full stacks were on, all the rest on bypass. I think during the gig only one full stack per guitarist was used the same time. During soundcheck all rigs were set and tested. No any trick background amp hiding in the shadows, the Wizards and the Marshalls you can see there pumed the juice into the PA.

We played on the same stage a couple of days before this show. Plenty of room, open air stage, trees around, birds ****ing on the trees, river behid the back, wind above the head. Anything but claustrophobic really.