Locking Nut or Not?

[Lazarus1140]

This has probably been covered a hundred times ...

Someone recently mentioned something about Jeff Beck's guitars staying in tune and it got me started thinking about how much easier bending should be (at least on the E, B, and G strings) when using a locking nut.

Who on the forum uses a locking nut? Is the shorter distance required for bending noticable/helpful? Other than a little hassle when tuning with a fixed bridge or vintage or two post tremolo, are there any drawbacks to using a locking nut?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

I use a locking nut on my Floyd best part about it for me is if I want to just plug and play without tuning I can because it stays in tune very well. Of course though you should still check every once in awhile because temperature changes can throw off tuning. One drawback is if you tighten the nuts to hard you can strip them especially the high E and B strings and it makes string changes a lil bit longer but thats expected with a Floyd.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

I like them, but I would not use one without fine tuners on the bridge.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

^^ +1000, it´s just ASKING for headaches. You might as well save time and just smack yourself a few times with a Louisville Slugger.

The problem is that on most guitars as soon as you cinch down the nut the strings go slightly sharp. Sure, you can offset it before locking and hope it hits where you want it to, but it´s a semi-exact science at best.

The "shorter distance" required for bending the shorter string is offset by the trem rising up more than before, making any gain more or less +/- 0

I would not use a locknut without a finetuning bridge, nor would I recommend it to anybody. I´ll install or build it for the standard price if somebody is dead set on it, but I still won´t think it´s a good idea, and will probably turn out to be right.

 

[LonePhantom]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

The problem is that on most guitars as soon as you cinch down the nut the strings go slightly sharp. Sure, you can offset it before locking and hope it hits where you want it to, but it´s a semi-exact science at best.

That would only happen if you haven't got the strings at the right break angle over the nut. If the string retainer behind the locking nut is lowered sufficiently then you shouldn't have the strings going sharp when you lock the lock nut.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

That would only happen if you haven't got the strings at the right break angle over the nut. If the string retainer behind the locking nut is lowered sufficiently then you shouldn't have the strings going sharp when you lock the lock nut.

While this is in essence correct, how exactly does one control the break angle on an instrument with an angled headstock and no retainer bar, for example most Jacksons? Practically nobody uses the bar on non-straight headstocks that have the "proper" angle built in (which in pure theory is exactly 11° btw), but almost nobody nails the angle perfectly every time, which is why IME 75-80% of the factory floyded instruments out there are stricken with this problem . Hence the use of the term "most guitars".

Also remember that this is a thread about somebody´s idea for a DIY solution, and not a professionally installed locking nut. As such, it is to be assumed that the discrepancies to a standard installation will be larger than usual, compounding eventual problems.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

On my floyded guitars I of course have a locking nut with fine tuners. As much as I'm not a really huge whammy user, the locking nut is nice from a tuning stability stand point.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

This has probably been covered a hundred times ...

Someone recently mentioned something about Jeff Beck's guitars staying in tune and it got me started thinking about how much easier bending should be (at least on the E, B, and G strings) when using a locking nut.

Who on the forum uses a locking nut? Is the shorter distance required for bending noticable/helpful? Other than a little hassle when tuning with a fixed bridge or vintage or two post tremolo, are there any drawbacks to using a locking nut?

Bending gets easier the longer the string is outside the nut-saddle area.

Bending gets easier the shorter the string is inside the nut-saddle area.

The locking nut makes it harder.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

I like them, but I would not use one without fine tuners on the bridge.

That's right.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

^ +1. Good info put very plain and simple and to the point.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

That would only happen if you haven't got the strings at the right break angle over the nut.

No that's not the only phenomenon. The pads are never zero tolerance in the nut, so they rotate a little when torqued. The string on the bass side pulls sharp and the string on the treble side slacks flat. Sometimes it doesn't happen (and I don't lock mine very tight) but its another reality. Fine tuners are necessary.

I notice a difference with the nut locked vs unlocked. But with a floating trem as Zerb said the sympathy tension transfers to the trem springs and there's little difference. If your trem is not floating there is a bigger difference.

But my problem with the premise overall is that the same amount of tension is still required to reach pitch. You may be talking about a slightly shorter distance, but it shouldn't be considered easier because its the same poundage required. In fact, sympathy slacking of the other strings at the headstock and trem should make it easier to get that string to pitch, as those strings slack flat a bit.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

^^ good points, you really have come into your own, bro. :friday:

The only situation where I would say there could be a tangible albeit minute playability benefit would be adding a lock to a guitar that already has a fine tuning fixed bridge or tailpiece like the Schaller TP-6 or Kahler 72xx series.

BUT, the tradeoff is that you lose the tonal depth that the (tension fluctuation transferring to the) free length behind the (unlocked or non locking) nut adds. For example I personally would probably never do this to an instrument with a reverse headstock (6 IL or hockey), primarily because the reverse headstock sounds so freaking awesome on the bass strings and to lose that for, like, 1.5mm less bending distance is a bad tradeoff IMO.

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

I like them, but I would not use one without fine tuners on the bridge.

that's not even possible. tightening the nut itself changes the tune, and you have to adjust with fine tuners.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

that's not even possible. tightening the nut itself changes the tune, and you have to adjust with fine tuners.

As I stated before, it possible, it was even necessary on the very first floyds IIRC. That´s the semi precise hit-and-miss science of pre-offsetting the tunings I was talking about.

 

[rumblebox]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

As I stated before, it possible, it was even necessary on the very first floyds IIRC. That´s the semi precise hit-and-miss science of pre-offsetting the tunings I was talking about.

and they would change with temperature. not worth the trouble.

using a floyd with a standard nut would be easier to keep in tune than a locking nut without fine tuners.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

and they would change with temperature. not worth the trouble.

using a floyd with a standard nut would be easier to keep in tune than a locking nut without fine tuners.

Significantly.

FTR, I´m not in any way arguing that there wasn´t a damn good reason for adding finetuners to the floyd. Just saying it´s not completely impossible if somebody is that dead set on it. I still don´t recommend it at all.

 

[tubecrunch]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

Go to GC and find a Wolfgang model already set up like that. Try it out, let 'er rip, and report back.

 

[tubecrunch]

Re: Locking Nut or Not?

Assumed you were asking about a fixed bridge w fine tuners, ie Wolfgang, Lucille. I'm dumb. Sorry.