LOOK! i have a question about recording.

[nepalnt21]

ok. so my band has a pretty good recording setup, and a guy who knows a lot about computers, and recording on programs, and stuff like that. the problem is, we are not too good at recording vocals. our vocals sound pretty bad sometimes. we do a lot of harmonies also. so what are some pointers to make our vocals sound as professional as possible? maybe we can get this up to vault status.... :biglaugh:

 

[nepalnt21]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

anyone? anyone?

 

[Zerberus]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

1. singing lessons
2. Antares Autotune systems
3. lots of delay and reverb

 

[john5959]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

1. singing lessons
2. Antares Autotune systems
3. lots of delay and reverb

Yeah, aside from singing lessons you can get a pitch correction program and as long as you sing close to the note it will fix it.You can also get ones that do the hamonies for you.

 

[john5959]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Oh, and there's a fair bit of info on the net about recording vocals.
The only thing I know is that vocals are suppose to be in the centre of the stereo spectrum.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Vocals can be a little tricky to record, but here are my best tips.

Find someone who can sing.

Get a deceint large diaphram condenser mic.

Get a deceint mic preamp, tube if you can swing it.

Get a deceint compressor.

While you might get something useable using the preamps you have already in whatever it is you are recording on, you won't get solid vocals from a SM58 and a board preamp. To get vocals to sit up front you really need a solid mic, mic pre and a solid compressor set to at least 8:1.

 

[J Moose]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

What's the real problem? lol

Is it singing in-tune & together or more of a tone thing? If the tonal quality of the vox is a bit muddy, too bright & sibilant or just don't have a consistent level most of that can be addressed in the mix as long as it's 80% there to begin with.

OTOH, if the singer just sucks there isn't much you can do except help 'em through the process or outright replace them. And really singers are a HARD thing to replace...even with those handy non-disclosure agreements! If the headphone mix isn't right that'll screw people up...generally being sharp means they can't hear themselves and if they're consistently flat then they have too much of their own voice in the cans. Some people just flat out can’t sing with headphones so you’ll need to move to plan B, get them in front of some monitors and/or put a microphone in their hands so they loosen up and give a better performance.

Throwing a tuning program and effects at it won't "solve" the problem, they might make it a little more bearable but really it's like putting icing on a burnt cake. If you put a lot of 'verb & delay on out of tune vox all you get is out of tune 'verb! The mic choice, placement, preamp, amount of compression etc. are ALL secondary to getting a great take no matter who's singing. Really, someone like Frank Sinatra or Chris Robinson is going to sound pretty much the same regardless of the mic, it could be a $100 SM58 or a $10K U47 with a VF14. The laws of physics are the same for you & me...no amount of gear makes my singing voice bareable and belive me I've tried!!!

Now, if you're looking for ideas on cutting backing vocals I have tons...but I make a living from this stuff and I could rant for years and not really say anything that's relevant to your situation. So, what's the real problem?

:laugh2:

 

[Guest]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

I think this is a really interesting thread! Really good to get some tips on this, please write more tips!

Also I have to ask you pros if it's right that it will sound, hmm... "better" if you pronounce "S" and "Z" sounds when singing?

 

[J Moose]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Also I have to ask you pros if it's right that it will sound, hmm... "better" if you pronounce "S" and "Z" sounds when singing?

Actually you want to try and under pronounce them if that makes any sense. Make an "S" sound with your mouth and notice the whistling sound that the "S" makes in something like "sibilance sucks". You want to try and kill as much of that as possible, taking it out after the fact with a tool called a 'de-esser' usually gives the singer a lisp!

Try and avoid plosives too. Plosives are blasts of air that come out when you say pronounce the letters "B" & "P". Stick your hand in front of your mouth and say "Popping plosives are bad" and feel the little blasts of wind. They'll bottom out the diaphragm of a mic (any microphone) and make the engineers job just a little harder to a nightmare depending on how bad it is. Usually a nylon windscreen will kill 'em or sometimes a high pass filter on the mic or mic amp...but the BEST is when the singer kills 'em before they reach the microphone!

 

[nepalnt21]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

it has nothing to do with the tone or quality of my singer. its just that when we record his voice, it doesnt sit well in the mix. it sounds very ameteurly recorded (which it is)

 

[vinterland]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Robert S. gives good advice. Vocal sounds are influenced by the entire signal chain more than about any other part of the recording IMO. Whereas you can get a good guitar tone with a minimal setup, its usually not the case with a vocal. A good compressor and a good mic pre can fatten up a vocal beyond belief. Good delay and reverbs can make it sound unbelievably lush. Never rely on a tuning program, find someone who can sing instead. Tuning is highly overused and should only be used sparingly unless you want to sound like a robot.

 

[LesStrat]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Is it just his voice, or is it in combination with the harmonies? You might need to roll off some lows or low-mids on the harmonies vox.

 

[J Moose]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

it has nothing to do with the tone or quality of my singer. its just that when we record his voice, it doesnt sit well in the mix. it sounds very ameteurly recorded (which it is)

Well there 'ya go! LOL

Can you post a clip of something and I'll shoot a little feedback your way?

Sometimes it comes from tracking, other times it's tracked ok but it's a mix thing where the frequency ranges need to be seperated out more or there's too much (or not enough) compression to make the vocals sit in the pocket. And sometimes I get stuff that's just totally messy and there's little I can do to make it sound "good" so I make it sound interesting!

As for 'reverbs & effects, you can't rely on them to make the vocals sound good. There are a lot of records that have been cut & mixed really dry, from the Beatles to System of a Down. But yah, good reverb can make a huge difference in a recording. Nothing's worse then cheap reverb, it's like pouring poo all over the mix.

 

[xerxes]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

well, it sounds very amature and it is very amature (as u just said). i think u just identified your own problem...

 

[Guest]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Actually you want to try and under pronounce them if that makes any sense. Make an "S" sound with your mouth and notice the whistling sound that the "S" makes in something like "sibilance sucks". You want to try and kill as much of that as possible, taking it out after the fact with a tool called a 'de-esser' usually gives the singer a lisp!

Try and avoid plosives too. Plosives are blasts of air that come out when you say pronounce the letters "B" & "P". Stick your hand in front of your mouth and say "Popping plosives are bad" and feel the little blasts of wind. They'll bottom out the diaphragm of a mic (any microphone) and make the engineers job just a little harder to a nightmare depending on how bad it is. Usually a nylon windscreen will kill 'em or sometimes a high pass filter on the mic or mic amp...but the BEST is when the singer kills 'em before they reach the microphone!

Thanks for the corrections! Now I know

Some wrote above about the importance of using decent reverbs and delays. So I have a new question about that, What is considered decent? Are the software VST reverbs/delays in eg. Cubase considired just crap and not usable for anything else than just demo recording. Just curious about this!

 

[J Moose]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Thanks for the corrections! Now I know

Some wrote above about the importance of using decent reverbs and delays. So I have a new question about that, What is considered decent? Are the software VST reverbs/delays in eg. Cubase considired just crap and not usable for anything else than just demo recording. Just curious about this!

I wouldn't use 'em for anything more then an extra 'verb on say a shaker or some kinda background part. I usually patch two 'verbs when I'm mixing; one long & one short, a couple three delays and a multi-fx box or two for the crazier stuff like pitchshifting, detuning, chorused stereo delays etc. I'm not afraid to patch stompboxes in either, especially if I need a great flange for a vocal or something I'll reach for my MXR 117 or EH Electric Mistress because I don't like the TC, Lexicon & eqivilents. It doesn't sound right to me, it always seems weak & watered down with no attitude...maybe it's a guitar player thing LOL

Anyway, I got used the sound of great stuff really early on which in a way spolied me and in another way it's great! I learned how to engineer in a huge studio doing major label records and was using stuff like 40 y/o EMT plates and the $15K Lexicon 480L for reverb. And really...there's no comparison between a great dedicated outboard reverb like an Eventide 2016, Lexicon PCM90, TC M2000 (or higher), and the welfare plugs that come with the software packages. The difference is really audible in the smoothness, depth, detail and especially in the tails. There's no just NO comparison. A great 'verb will make the whole mix sound more polished, glued together, expensive and 'record-like' then using something that's the equivilent of an Alesis Midiverb!!! Don't get me wrong, I'll use a Midiverb but it's for the 3rd or 4th tier stuff and not the main attraction.

YMMV, I've heard some people do amazingly great things with cheap gear...myself included but given the option I'd rather use tools that I don't have to "fight" to get good sounds out of.

 

[Guest]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

Okay, good to know that!

You see, I'm a newbie in the recording world so

I have a "track" that I'm working on just for fun and learning (just instrumental so far), call it demo quality or something like that. I'm trying out VST plugins, software effects, recording techniques as well as learning the programs etc. since I don't have any money or interest in buying any more recording gear before learing basics.

I will post the track here in maybe a few days, it would be great if you'd take the time and listen to it and give some feedback and tips about.... everything maybe because it's sounds "not record quality" and it lacks things, but I don't know what exactly

I mean the final goal that everyone wants to achieve when recording something is what you wrote

...polished, glued together, expensive and 'record-like'

Right?

I'll post a thread about it and I can write here also in case you don't notice it.

 

[Brow]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

As regards 'plosives' in your vocals, always make sure you use a pop shield when recording vocals

An SM58 can ive perfectly good vocal sounds for recording, as long as you can live with the sound it gives the vocals.

As far as recording vocals goes, I like to use either a AKG 414, Rode NT2, or my Blue Baby Bottle mic.

Although, when recording metal bands, I've found that using an SM58 on the vocals really adds an edge to the sound of the vocal. It's not as 'polished' sounding as the other mics I mentioned, and kinda gives a 'dirty' sound.

Craig

 

[AmirH]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

It takes WAY more work to make a dynamic mic sit well in the mix, especially without a nice preamp. The first thing I would look at is mic choice. Large diaphram condensors are the way to go to be sure. Compression can be added later with good results IMO and if your mic is nice you can work around questionable preamps too if you experiment enough. But you really have to know what you're doing to get non-amateur sounding results with an sm58 for example(which is why I usually stick with the condensor haha)

 

[Brow]

Re: LOOK! i have a question about recording.

There's no denying the quality of a vocal recording when using a condensor microphone, I was just putting my point across about also being able to use an SM58 if you like the sound and are prepared to work for it