Looking for a small yet versatile setup for church

[devastone]

I have a pair of KZ that I use with my iPhone and I will say that for the price they are excellent.

Yeah, that's basically what I've been posting links to, the TRNs are probably coming out of the same factory as the KZs, just a little lighter. But, if you have a set of KZs, you are set for IEMs, at least for now, just plug them into your personal mixer, probably will want an extension cable though, don't want to have to stand in the same 3' and not be able to move - https://smile.amazon.com/CableCreat...&sprefix=1/8"+stereo+e,electronics,168&sr=1-5

 

[donaldr]

+1 on KZ. I also have a set of KZ ZX6 and I would use it until you can afford a custom set, as Mincer was talking about.

 

[Gtrjunior]

+1 on KZ. I also have a set of KZ ZX6 and I would use it until you can afford a custom set, as Mincer was talking about.

I’m have the ZS5 pair. And also a set of the ZST that I use for the gym. I’ll get the extension cable that devastone posted and just start there.

 

[donaldr]

Sorry I have the ZS6, I step-up from ZS5. Maybe get a new set of quad-driver from KZ that is oriented for musicians (flatter response), they are affordable and will give you a very good idea if you like IEM or not for not too music $$$. Then go custom mold.
You also might get a look at Singtall presets fro your Amplifire. I used some of them for my Eleven Rack and they are very good.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Sorry I have the ZS6, I step-up from ZS5. Maybe get a new set of quad-driver from KZ that is oriented for musicians (flatter response), they are affordable and will give you a very good idea if you like IEM or not for not too music $$$. Then go custom mold.
You also might get a look at Singtall presets fro your Amplifire. I used some of them for my Eleven Rack and they are very good.

I was looking at the aliexpress KZ page earlier and they have quite a few IEMs that look good for the musician. I have a buddy at work who is big into audiophile IEMs. I’m going to see what he thinks as well. I appreciate all of the input here. Clearly I have a LOT to learn.

The guy I bought the AF12 from included a bunch of IRs and profiles and I believe I saw some Singtall in there.
The issue I’m having is getting the editor to recognize the AF12. When I connect the usb, my laptop sees it and preps it to be used but the editor software doesn’t see it.
I contacted support and they recommend trying a new usb, and I have one on order. So we will see. I ha r seen a number of threads on various forums with h others having the same issue.

 

[devastone]

I've never ordered from aliexpress, don't they ship from China? Amazon usually has them in stock in the states and if you are a Prime member, usually get them in a day or two, but looks like aliexpress is cheaper.

Anyway, you might check TRN too, plastic housings so they are lighter than the KZs - https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20210205143428&SearchText=trn

FWIW, I would have to be getting paid decently to consider custom molds, for volunteering at church I'm not dropping a grand on earbuds.

 

[Gtrjunior]

I've never ordered from aliexpress, don't they ship from China? Amazon usually has them in stock in the states and if you are a Prime member, usually get them in a day or two, but looks like aliexpress is cheaper.

Anyway, you might check TRN too, plastic housings so they are lighter than the KZs - https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20210205143428&SearchText=trn

FWIW, I would have to be getting paid decently to consider custom molds, for volunteering at church I'm not dropping a grand on earbuds.

Oh yeah, no way am I dropping that kind of cash either. Lol. I’m going to start off using the KZ’s I have and take it from there. Lol

I was actually just downstairs and I hooked up the AF12 to my PA....man, I think I’m a convert.
All these years and I refused to even try modeling technology, but I have to say that this thing really sounds killer. Still, maybe not quite as good as a real tube amp but really, REALLY close. And when I think of not needing to lug an amp to gigs anymore, it’s looking really appealing.

I know I started this thread asking about a church setup, and I will in fact use the AF12 for that, I think I’m going to start using it for the regular rock band too. This technology has come a long way.

Those TRN look good too

 

[Gtrjunior]

So I finally had a chance to try the AA12 at rehearsal last Monday night. I have to admit that it sounded great....
I don’t want to admit that because I’m a tube amp snob, but truthfully it really did. All of the other guys couldn’t believe how good it sounded also.
Now I’m thinking maybe I’ll sell some gear I don’t really use and look into a higher end modeler. Lol
New thread in 3...2...1...

 

[ErikH]

Nice. I went to our Church rehearsal Wednesday night. My wife runs one of the cameras or is in the online feed media room during service so I went to watch the band and talk with the director. I've gotta learn the songs first but looking to be one of the rotating guitarists. I thought everything was DI until Wed night. I heard the guitar real loud when I went out to get coffee, which happens to be by the door going up to backstage. Turns out there's a live tube amp (Fender DR's, one for each guitar player), in an enclosure back there and mic'd up. Sounds fantastic. So, I don't need a modeller. Since it's a DR, I can use pedals I have already or put together a "Church specific" pedalboard (good excuse for new gear...LOL). That's certainly one way to go old-school while keeping the stage clean.

 

[devastone]

Nice. I went to our Church rehearsal Wednesday night. My wife runs one of the cameras or is in the online feed media room during service so I went to watch the band and talk with the director. I've gotta learn the songs first but looking to be one of the rotating guitarists. I thought everything was DI until Wed night. I heard the guitar real loud when I went out to get coffee, which happens to be by the door going up to backstage. Turns out there's a live tube amp (Fender DR's, one for each guitar player), in an enclosure back there and mic'd up. Sounds fantastic. So, I don't need a modeller. Since it's a DR, I can use pedals I have already or put together a "Church specific" pedalboard (good excuse for new gear...LOL). That's certainly one way to go old-school while keeping the stage clean.

Iso boxes offstage, or even onstage are also church norms, so now I guess you have options? Or, sell the AA12...

So, are you expected to have the songs memorized? Normally we do 3 songs on Sundays, we have iPads with Planning Center Music Stand so the chord chart is there, although I usually print it out at home and and make notes about the melodic lines I'm supposed to play, etc... and have that on a music stand. We also have subscriptions to Worship Online that has lessons for most of the parts, although they may only be in the original key, and we (and most churches) freely change the keys, but the lessons can be helpful if you are stuck on a part.. I tend to learn most of it by ear from the songs or isolated tracks, then resort to the lessons for little parts I can't hear.

Point is, if you've been playing in a cover band and learning songs by ear for years and they give you a chord chart and access to the music you'll probably be able to learn the ~3 songs for the week in a couple of hours or less.

 

[ErikH]

Iso boxes offstage, or even onstage are also church norms, so now I guess you have options? Or, sell the AA12...

So, are you expected to have the songs memorized? Normally we do 3 songs on Sundays, we have iPads with Planning Center Music Stand so the chord chart is there, although I usually print it out at home and and make notes about the melodic lines I'm supposed to play, etc... and have that on a music stand. We also have subscriptions to Worship Online that has lessons for most of the parts, although they may only be in the original key, and we (and most churches) freely change the keys, but the lessons can be helpful if you are stuck on a part.. I tend to learn most of it by ear from the songs or isolated tracks, then resort to the lessons for little parts I can't hear.

Point is, if you've been playing in a cover band and learning songs by ear for years and they give you a chord chart and access to the music you'll probably be able to learn the ~3 songs for the week in a couple of hours or less.

I'm not using the AA2, that's Gtrjunior. When I start to learn them I'll probably start by ear and with chord charts. No music stands on stage, except for the keyboardist, so I'll have to memorize. No big deal really.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Nice. I went to our Church rehearsal Wednesday night. My wife runs one of the cameras or is in the online feed media room during service so I went to watch the band and talk with the director. I've gotta learn the songs first but looking to be one of the rotating guitarists. I thought everything was DI until Wed night. I heard the guitar real loud when I went out to get coffee, which happens to be by the door going up to backstage. Turns out there's a live tube amp (Fender DR's, one for each guitar player), in an enclosure back there and mic'd up. Sounds fantastic. So, I don't need a modeller. Since it's a DR, I can use pedals I have already or put together a "Church specific" pedalboard (good excuse for new gear...LOL). That's certainly one way to go old-school while keeping the stage clean.

Talk about a great back line amp.
One of the models I made for my clean tone is a DR. I played around with it at rehearsal and was able to tweak it pretty good. I’ll say, it does a pretty convincing DR.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Iso boxes offstage, or even onstage are also church norms, so now I guess you have options? Or, sell the AA12...

So, are you expected to have the songs memorized? Normally we do 3 songs on Sundays, we have iPads with Planning Center Music Stand so the chord chart is there, although I usually print it out at home and and make notes about the melodic lines I'm supposed to play, etc... and have that on a music stand. We also have subscriptions to Worship Online that has lessons for most of the parts, although they may only be in the original key, and we (and most churches) freely change the keys, but the lessons can be helpful if you are stuck on a part.. I tend to learn most of it by ear from the songs or isolated tracks, then resort to the lessons for little parts I can't hear.

Point is, if you've been playing in a cover band and learning songs by ear for years and they give you a chord chart and access to the music you'll probably be able to learn the ~3 songs for the week in a couple of hours or less.

I’ll answer here too...

My church usually does 5 songs. The musicians have some sort of charts, either on a tablet or paper. From what I understand the music director emails everyone the songs for the upcoming service and then there is a rehearsal during the week.
Since we already have an acoustic player, I want to do more than just strum chords on the electric. So I think initially I’d be spending a bit more time picking out supplemental parts in the verses and most likely playing the choruses with some OD or whatever the song calls for.
So, I’m not too worried about getting all of the nuances perfect right off the bat. Worst case scenario is I arpeggiate the chords in the verses and do the OD guitar in the choruses.
And of course, like we have discussed I’ll need to either just use the IEM’s I have for now or invest in a better set at some point.

 

[devastone]

I'm not using the AA2, that's Gtrjunior. When I start to learn them I'll probably start by ear and with chord charts. No music stands on stage, except for the keyboardist, so I'll have to memorize. No big deal really.

Doh, sorry, reading quickly at lunchtime and not paying enough attention, sorry about that.

 

[devastone]

I’ll answer here too...

My church usually does 5 songs. The musicians have some sort of charts, either on a tablet or paper. From what I understand the music director emails everyone the songs for the upcoming service and then there is a rehearsal during the week.
Since we already have an acoustic player, I want to do more than just strum chords on the electric. So I think initially I’d be spending a bit more time picking out supplemental parts in the verses and most likely playing the choruses with some OD or whatever the song calls for.
So, I’m not too worried about getting all of the nuances perfect right off the bat. Worst case scenario is I arpeggiate the chords in the verses and do the OD guitar in the choruses.
And of course, like we have discussed I’ll need to either just use the IEM’s I have for now or invest in a better set at some point.

I probably have notes on a lot of the same songs, PM or e-mail me what songs you are doing and I'll look. Our new guy really wants some parts note for note, good thing Vai doesn't do worship music, I'm still picking through selections from P&W after 30 years.

Again, sorry for not getting you and Erik mixed up, I can still hear my dad saying "pay attention!", freakin' ADD.

As far as just strumming chords, we have an acoustic player most of the time, and the leader plays electric too, so I'm just covering the melodic parts, the sprinkles on top so to speak.

 

[ErikH]

I'm glad I've been following this thread. I haven't sat in with the band yet but the idea is there and getting my feet wet with what they are doing. Really good bunch of guys too. Our lead players play more arpeggiated chords and melodic parts to accompany underneath. There's sometimes 2 electric players, one doing more rhythm in tandem with the acoustic player. Depends on if there are 1 or 2 how it plays out. If 1, then he's gotta handle some rhythm and the sprinkles.

Thinking about my pedalboard, I can still use the Fly Rig in to the Deluxe Reverb without the amp/cab sim turned on and just use the overdrive, delay and reverb. Since I have the compressor on there too, and a Boss DM-2w for a another delay option, it's set to cover the bases really. And that works for me.

They play anywhere from 4-5, one might be an original from time to time.

No worries on the confusion, devastone. It happens.

 

[Gtrjunior]

I probably have notes on a lot of the same songs, PM or e-mail me what songs you are doing and I'll look. Our new guy really wants some parts note for note, good thing Vai doesn't do worship music, I'm still picking through selections from P&W after 30 years.

Again, sorry for not getting you and Erik mixed up, I can still hear my dad saying "pay attention!", freakin' ADD.

As far as just strumming chords, we have an acoustic player most of the time, and the leader plays electric too, so I'm just covering the melodic parts, the sprinkles on top so to speak.

Very cool....I appreciate that offer and I will definitely take you up on that.
At this stage I’ve spoken to my pastor about playing in the band and he mentioned it to the worship leader. I’ve spoken with one of the guys already in the band and we were supposed to get together to play but his wife got Covid and then a couple weeks later, I did. So that hasn’t happened yet.
Each week at the service I’ve been taking notes of the songs they have done, so I have a list of about 15-20 songs. (I haven’t physically gone to a service in about a month due to Covid but they live stream. )
But I didn’t note those songs.
So right now, I haven’t yet played with them. Sort of still in the planning stages. Lol

And no apologies necessary about confusing Eric and I....

 

[devastone]

If you guys have been doing the cover band thing recently, you are way overthinking the church thing. I mean, back in the day learning covers it was mostly from scratch wearing out tapes, these new fangled computers and software make is so much easier. But, for church you should get chord charts, mp3s, and possibly even isolated tracks (https://worshiponline.com/). 99% of the songs are in a straight up major key, in a pop format (some combination of I, IV, V with a ii or vi thrown in occasionally), so if you know a little theory, pretty easy to figure out the melodic sprinkles thrown in, the worst parts are that sometimes the parts are really buried and/or (usually and) the guitars are so drenched in reverb it's hard to make out the notes (at least for those of us who remember the days of practicing through 100W stacks 3 - 4 times a week, but if you get isolated tracks, pretty easy. Seriously, this isn't hard stuff, I know you guys can nail it.

And yeah, feel free to hit me up for notes if I can find them too, I keep some, but I have to clean out every once in a while (been doing this for 10 years or so)

 

[beaubrummels]

If you guys have been doing the cover band thing recently, you are way overthinking the church thing. I mean, back in the day learning covers it was mostly from scratch wearing out tapes, these new fangled computers and software make is so much easier. But, for church you should get chord charts, mp3s, and possibly even isolated tracks (https://worshiponline.com/). 99% of the songs are in a straight up major key, in a pop format (some combination of I, IV, V with a ii or vi thrown in occasionally), so if you know a little theory, pretty easy to figure out the melodic sprinkles thrown in, the worst parts are that sometimes the parts are really buried and/or (usually and) the guitars are so drenched in reverb it's hard to make out the notes (at least for those of us who remember the days of practicing through 100W stacks 3 - 4 times a week, but if you get isolated tracks, pretty easy. Seriously, this isn't hard stuff, I know you guys can nail it.

+1 ...and for just about any song you need to play, there's a YouTube video from the original players demonstrating how to do it in isolation so you can hear it without the reverb and mix. The only hassle really is modulation/transposition for key changes to accomodate an ever-changing roster of vocalists. Part of why I keep a couple 24-fret guitars around. Capos become handy sometimes.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Yesterday after the service I spoke with the music director and let her know I was interested in playing. Our Pastor had already told her as I had mentioned it to him a while back.
So what she does is, email the worship team the set for next weeks service as a PDF. It’s basically lyrics with the chord changes written on top.
I have her my email and asked if she could include me on the list. This way I can get more familiar with the songs and start to get a bunch of songs under my fingers.

And yes....I’m totally overthinking it!! Although I’m not a perfectionist per se I like to know what’s going on....I’m not a fan of working in the fly.