Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Definitely should look into the Bill Lawrence (Wilde) L500C for the neck and L45TL in the Bridge. Amazing clarity with superb articulation!

I have these in several guitars, including a Tele (with the L45S in the neck.) I love SD pickups but when it comes to clear story late time, Bill Lawrence is where it’s at, IMO.

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It looks like those Lawrence pickups are dual blade humbuckers? And really articulate? Hmmm... I may just need to go there. Awesome looking Tele, by the way! I love it.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

IDK, I hear a lot more bass out of the 59 than I do out of the Seth in the neck. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but its there.


You may be right. The people at Duncan steered me toward the '59 with my request for full toned, yet articulate and sparkly. We shall see! If I don't like it, I can always exchange it. I like that policy!
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Sounds like you have a plan, but wanted to second the mini and firebirds... Hard to beat for clean articulate, although they are rather different sounds.

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Is there a good mini humbucker made by Duncan? I know the Gibson mini humbucker gets a lot of appreciation. And I have to say, the Gibson Classic '57 is a stellar pickup to my ears.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

It looks like those Lawrence pickups are dual blade humbuckers? And really articulate? Hmmm... I may just need to go there. Awesome looking Tele, by the way! I love it.

If you’ve never tried a Bill Lawrence then I would recommend you try one...highly underrated and misunderstood pickup (largely due to Dimebag Darrell’s use of the L500XL who later used SD’s version called the Dimebucker....a great pickup too but the hottest “L500” out there.)

The thing about Bill Lawrence is that he was big into letting the guitar’s tone be picked up, not having the pickup influence the tone. His pickups are very clear and articulate with great response—can handle pristine cleans and are articulate even with a ton of gain.

I love rail pickups—both the looks and the feel/response. Seymour Duncan Hotrails, Coolrails and Vintage Rails are excellent pickups...but not as clear nor articulate as any Bill Lawrence I’ve used.

Thanks! It’s a cool super light weight Tele—all Roasted Woods (Ash body and Quartersawn Maple Neck.) Incredible sustain and extremely versatile.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Is there a good mini humbucker made by Duncan? I know the Gibson mini humbucker gets a lot of appreciation. And I have to say, the Gibson Classic '57 is a stellar pickup to my ears.

I think the SM-1n is a pretty neat mini. It's closer to a single coil, to my ears, but it takes well to tone control manipulation and to overdrive. I have one in the neck of an Alleykat, one in the neck of a Epi LP std, amd one in the neck of an Epi Nighthawk.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Is the typical humbucker routing in a Tele neck position wide enough to accommodate a mini-humbucker, without routing out more body wood?

Sorry... I should have researched this first. I have learned from a little online search that the mini humbucker will easily fit into a standard humbucker rout in the guitar.
 
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Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

If you’ve never tried a Bill Lawrence then I would recommend you try one...highly underrated and misunderstood pickup (largely due to Dimebag Darrell’s use of the L500XL who later used SD’s version called the Dimebucker....a great pickup too but the hottest “L500” out there.)

The thing about Bill Lawrence is that he was big into letting the guitar’s tone be picked up, not having the pickup influence the tone. His pickups are very clear and articulate with great response—can handle pristine cleans and are articulate even with a ton of gain.

I love rail pickups—both the looks and the feel/response. Seymour Duncan Hotrails, Coolrails and Vintage Rails are excellent pickups...but not as clear nor articulate as any Bill Lawrence I’ve used.

Thanks! It’s a cool super light weight Tele—all Roasted Woods (Ash body and Quartersawn Maple Neck.) Incredible sustain and extremely versatile.

I would love to hear more about that Tele. Where is the body from? (It's gorgeous, and I appreciate the lack of pickguard, so the beautiful wood grain can be appreciated even more).
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Is there a good mini humbucker made by Duncan? I know the Gibson mini humbucker gets a lot of appreciation. And I have to say, the Gibson Classic '57 is a stellar pickup to my ears.

Hard to tell......I found the 57 I had to be terrible in the neck.......muddy and incredibly 1 dimensional. Even a Gibson mini will be way more alive and nice, and then going to Duncan is another step up. The issue is that if you have your amp set for a 57 to be clear then it might be overly bright with another pickup in there.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Hard to tell......I found the 57 I had to be terrible in the neck.......muddy and incredibly 1 dimensional. Even a Gibson mini will be way more alive and nice, and then going to Duncan is another step up. The issue is that if you have your amp set for a 57 to be clear then it might be overly bright with another pickup in there.

The pair of Gibson Classic '57s that I have in a Tele HH have had their A2 magnets replaced with A5. They're not the least bit muddy, and they have a nice sparkle. I'm not saying that I think they're the best sounding humbuckers one might be able to find, simply that they sound very good to me - MUCH better sounding than the Dimarzio PAF Master I have in yet another Tele's neck position.

To my ears (as a 'clean' tone player) the Gibson '57 is richer, tonally and audibly more dimensional than the Dimarzio PAF Master is. And there sure are a heck of a lot of very happy Gibson Classic '57 players out there with Les Pauls, ES-335s, ES-339s, etc.

I do understand, though, that in certain guitars, and to certain personal preferences, no particular pickup can come close to pleasing everyone. Gibson pickups are "the standard" to many and probably "to be avoided" by others.

It will be very interesting to install the Duncan '59 I have en route in one of my Teles and hear how it compares to my Gibson '57s.

Nice thing is that if I'm not thrilled with the tone of the Duncan '59, I may trade it for a Duncan Vintage Mini Humbucker (Firebird pickup clone?), and the comparison will being again.

I won't stop until I'm a happy camper.
 
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Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

I think the SM-1n is a pretty neat mini. It's closer to a single coil, to my ears, but it takes well to tone control manipulation and to overdrive. I have one in the neck of an Alleykat, one in the neck of a Epi LP std, amd one in the neck of an Epi Nighthawk.


The SM-1n is on my radar now. I will check it out. Thanks for the comments on it.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

The use of the term "mini humbucker" is somewhat general, and is usually used today to refer to a basic form of pickup, rather than to the specific construction of the pickup that fits that form. The term today usually is meant to cover *both* Gibson-type mini humbuckers: the Firebird pickup and the New York mini humbucker pickup.

The general mini humbucker form is originally from the pre-Gibson-era Epiphone company. It started out as a single coil, referred to (not sure whether officially or not) as the New York pickup.

In the late '50's Epi was bought by Gibson's parent company, and the Gibson and Epi companies soon started sharing technology and designs, as well as production facilities. In the early '60's, this basic Epi single coil form was taken and developed into a humbucker, in both bass and guitar versions. It was used in various Epis and some Gibsons (like their two-pickup basses). I call these New York mini humbuckers in order to keep things straight, though I don't know the official brand terminology for them. They eventually found their way into Les Paul Deluxes when the LP was reissued by Gibson in the late '60's. The design of these pickups is very similar to a full-sized humbucker – just smaller. The main difference is that there are no individual slugs on the mini – just a single large "blade" slug, which is magnetized by the bar magnet that sits horizontally below the coils (just like a regular sized humbucker).

A few years after Gibson developed these New York mini humbuckers, a different design of pickup, using the same basic form, was developed specifically for Gibson Firebirds. These were a very different design. They used a "blade" permanent magnet inside each coil, a steel plate bridging the blades (sometimes on top of the blades and sometimes on the bottom), and were covered with a smooth cover (no adjustable poles). I call these Firebird pickups.

As far as Duncan offerings go, the standard production pickups that they call Vintage Mini Humbuckers are built like Firebird pickups, but with "S" engraved on the covers. The Seymourized versions might be overwound versions of the same basic construction too (though I remember being told by Jeremy that the Custom versions are a bit different). In order to get a New York mini humbucker from Duncan, you have to go to the Antiquity line (where you can also find Antiquity Firebird pickups, which are basically Vintage Mini Humbuckers that have been equipped with non-engraved covers, and "Dun-Aged").

So, bottom line, when someone says, "Put in a mini humbucker," it doesn't just mean one thing. You have to pick Firebird style or New York mini style...and the tonal differences between the two are actually quite plain, so don't think of them as the same thing just because they'll fit the same pickup rout on your guitar.
 
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Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

The use of the term "mini humbucker" is somewhat general, and is usually used today to refer to a basic form of pickup, rather than to the specific construction of the pickup that fits that form. The term today usually is meant to cover *both* Gibson-type mini humbuckers: the Firebird pickup and the New York mini humbucker pickup.

The general mini humbucker form is originally from the pre-Gibson-era Epiphone company. It started out as a single coil, referred to (not sure whether officially or not) as the New York pickup.

In the late '50's Epi was bought by Gibson's parent company, and the Gibson and Epi companies soon started sharing technology and designs, as well as production facilities. In the early '60's, this basic Epi single coil form was taken and developed into a humbucker, in both bass and guitar versions. It was used in various Epis and some Gibsons (like their two-pickup basses). I call these New York mini humbuckers in order to keep things straight, though I don't know the official brand terminology for them. They eventually found their way into Les Paul Deluxes when the LP was reissued by Gibson in the late '60's. The design of these pickups is very similar to a full-sized humbucker – just smaller. The main difference is that there are no individual slugs on the mini – just a single large "blade" slug, which is magnetized by the bar magnet that sits horizontally below the coils (just like a regular sized humbucker).

A few years after Gibson developed these New York mini humbuckers, a different design of pickup, using the same basic form, was developed specifically for Gibson Firebirds. These were a very different design. They used a "blade" permanent magnet inside each coil, a steel plate bridging the blades (sometimes on top of the blades and sometimes on the bottom), and were covered with a smooth cover (no adjustable poles). I call these Firebird pickups.

As far as Duncan offerings go, the standard production pickups that they call Vintage Mini Humbuckers are built like Firebird pickups, but with "S" engraved on the covers. The Seymourized versions might be overwound versions of the same basic construction too (though I remember being told by Jeremy that the Custom versions are a bit different). In order to get a New York mini humbucker from Duncan, you have to go to the Antiquity line (where you can also find Antiquity Firebird pickups, which are basically Vintage Mini Humbuckers that have been equipped with non-engraved covers, and "Dun-Aged").

So, bottom line, when someone says, "Put in a mini humbucker," it doesn't just mean one thing. You have to pick Firebird style or New York mini style...and the tonal differences between the two are actually quite plain, so don't think of them as the same thing just because they'll fit the same pickup rout on your guitar.

Thanks, ItsaBass. I was able to grasp the basic differences between mini-humbuckers and Firebird pickups from Gibson.com. But your comments on the Duncan versions are especially helpful and informative. Putting it all together in one post is great. Thanks.

This thread is full of great information. Thank you all! I very much appreciate everyone's responses!
 
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Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

Is there a good mini humbucker made by Duncan? I know the Gibson mini humbucker gets a lot of appreciation. And I have to say, the Gibson Classic '57 is a stellar pickup to my ears.

SD makes both, but I haven't used them, so will have to get input from someone who has-

Yes Gibson hasn't messed up the mini- pretty much the same as the classics, however, be careful with firebirds because they have messed with that formula- I've had great results with Fralin MHs and FBs and good experience with Lolar MHs.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

I would love to hear more about that Tele. Where is the body from? (It's gorgeous, and I appreciate the lack of pickguard, so the beautiful wood grain can be appreciated even more).

Thank you so very much!

The body and neck are from Warmoth.

Body is Roasted Swamp Ash, contoured heel, forearm contour, tummy cut, super thin nitro finish (by Southbound Custom, I highly recommend their work)

Neck is 1-Piece Roasted Quartersawn Maple, 9.5” straight radius, 1 11/16” brass nut

The body is super light—lighter than my 1 piece Basswood body in thin Nitro with a Roasted Maple+Rosewood neck. The Roasted woods definitely cut down some of the weight.

As far as tone, can’t really say the roasting is “better.” The guitar is incredibly resonant; however, it has high quality parts all around...no shortcuts on it.

It’s an incredible Tele for sure and the Bill Lawrences are a big part of it—super versatile. That being said, I don’t believe any guitar is an “end-all-be-all”...I have plans for another Tele build on down the road.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

The use of the term "mini humbucker" is somewhat general, and is usually used today to refer to a basic form of pickup, rather than to the specific construction of the pickup that fits that form. The term today usually is meant to cover *both* Gibson-type mini humbuckers: the Firebird pickup and the New York mini humbucker pickup.

The general mini humbucker form is originally from the pre-Gibson-era Epiphone company. It started out as a single coil, referred to (not sure whether officially or not) as the New York pickup.

In the late '50's Epi was bought by Gibson's parent company, and the Gibson and Epi companies soon started sharing technology and designs, as well as production facilities. In the early '60's, this basic Epi single coil form was taken and developed into a humbucker, in both bass and guitar versions. It was used in various Epis and some Gibsons (like their two-pickup basses). I call these New York mini humbuckers in order to keep things straight, though I don't know the official brand terminology for them. They eventually found their way into Les Paul Deluxes when the LP was reissued by Gibson in the late '60's. The design of these pickups is very similar to a full-sized humbucker – just smaller. The main difference is that there are no individual slugs on the mini – just a single large "blade" slug, which is magnetized by the bar magnet that sits horizontally below the coils (just like a regular sized humbucker).

A few years after Gibson developed these New York mini humbuckers, a different design of pickup, using the same basic form, was developed specifically for Gibson Firebirds. These were a very different design. They used a "blade" permanent magnet inside each coil, a steel plate bridging the blades (sometimes on top of the blades and sometimes on the bottom), and were covered with a smooth cover (no adjustable poles). I call these Firebird pickups.

As far as Duncan offerings go, the standard production pickups that they call Vintage Mini Humbuckers are built like Firebird pickups, but with "S" engraved on the covers. The Seymourized versions might be overwound versions of the same basic construction too (though I remember being told by Jeremy that the Custom versions are a bit different). In order to get a New York mini humbucker from Duncan, you have to go to the Antiquity line (where you can also find Antiquity Firebird pickups, which are basically Vintage Mini Humbuckers that have been equipped with non-engraved covers, and "Dun-Aged").

So, bottom line, when someone says, "Put in a mini humbucker," it doesn't just mean one thing. You have to pick Firebird style or New York mini style...and the tonal differences between the two are actually quite plain, so don't think of them as the same thing just because they'll fit the same pickup rout on your guitar.
When I refer to a mini, I mean the old style with pole pieces. I'm not really a fan of most Firebird style pickups, though they can work well in the neck of a Tele for slide.
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

the duncan sm1 and antiquity fb pups are firebird style. the antiquity mini humbucker is ny lp dlx style. the sm2 and sm3 are kinda hybrids as far as i understand. they have a single bar magnet with blades.

i really like the whole line, regardless of construction but there are significant tonal differences.

if youre using a full size bucker in the bridge then you can probably get away with a jazz or 59 bucker in the neck. if you want something more articulate then a mini humbucker or fb or cool rails or even a barden pup in the neck will have a clearer sound
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

the duncan sm1 and antiquity fb pups are firebird style. the antiquity mini humbucker is ny lp dlx style. the sm2 and sm3 are kinda hybrids as far as i understand. they have a single bar magnet with blades.

i really like the whole line, regardless of construction but there are significant tonal differences.

if youre using a full size bucker in the bridge then you can probably get away with a jazz or 59 bucker in the neck. if you want something more articulate then a mini humbucker or fb or cool rails or even a barden pup in the neck will have a clearer sound

For a Tele build I’m considering, I want noiseless pickups in bridge and neck. I play a clean, articulate style and want the guitar to have rich, full, and sparkly tone. I don’t need an overdriven tone, and I don’t need it to sound “like a Tele”.

I’m thinking a Mini Humbucker at the neck and a twin-blade or Little ‘59 Tele at the bridge.

Which SD Mini Humbucker do you think may suit my objective the best?

And, which twin-blade might be my best choice for the bridge (if I don’t go with the Little ‘59 Tele)?
 
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Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

id look at joe barden pups or go duncan custom shop if you need noiseless for clean tones from a tele bridge. i love the antiquity II firebird neck pup in my tele but you may not like the aged look
 
Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

id look at joe barden pups or go duncan custom shop if you need noiseless for clean tones from a tele bridge. i love the antiquity II firebird neck pup in my tele but you may not like the aged look

Thank you. Does your Antiquity II Firebird neck pickup do clean/articulate well? Do you think that the Antiquity Mini Humbucker (non-Firebird) might do clean/articulate better?

I've pretty much decided to go with Mini Humbucker (perhaps N.Y. style) in the neck position and some form of noiseless (twin rails or Little '59) at the bridge.

I've had other people recommend Joe Barden pickups - I guess I really need to check those out! I know nothing about them, at all.

You're right about the aged thing with the Antiquities. I wish Duncan offered that same pickup but with just a regular nickel/silver cover. I don't really care to pay extra for pseudo-aging. That said, if the pickup sounds like what I want, I'll take the aging on the cover, I'm just not thrilled about having to pay for aging that I don't care about. :sad:
 
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Re: Looking for clean, articulate tones - neck humbucker in a Tele - your thoughts?

For the bridge I would look into the DiMarzio Chopper T as well.

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