Looking for some really thick sounds

S

SirBlaketh

New member
Hey guys. I've been playing on a really crappy GRG for a while, but soon I will make a series of purchases that will change my experience forever. Here's the soon-to-be signal chain

Ibanez RGAIX6FM [Mahogany Body, Flamed Maple Top, 1x vol 3 way selector with coil tap switch]

Airis Effects SAVAGE Drive

Peavey 6505MH

First I'll get a cab sim and a dummy load, but then

Mesa 2X12 Vert Recto

Now, my big thing is, I play a LOT of metal. And I've been chasing a really thick, bone-crushing, bass heavy sound in the bridge for rhythm, but all the pickups I've seen also make it impossible for it to be good for leads. In the neck, I need a little more versatility, preferably for either a huge amount of lead-playing but also I need something that doesn't sound like bathory when playing the clean channel, as hard as that is to fathom on a 6505.

Thoughts? And cheers to you guys, I just joined up after seeing how polite most of you guys are while lurking.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Don't rule out the oversized orange 2x12 cab with V30's, it's as thick or heavy as my rectifier 4x12, moves a lot of air!

If your budget will allow a head change it will make the most difference. There's lots of good stuff but only a few heads that will get that super thick massive sound IMO. Even if you have to sell stuff and save $100 a month till you're ready, it is worth it. My two favs are the Uberschall and Double Rectifier. There's lots of other good stuff but a premium tube head it the most important.

Then stick a quality distortion pedal ( Proco Rat, Empress Heavy, Bogner Ecstasy Red, Seymour Duncan Palladium, EarthQuaker Devices Palisades ) in the signal chain with a quality gate like an ISP decimator.

Strings, their gauge, and picks will help too, both need to be heavy. I moved to ultex picks from tortex and it was beefier for sure

The biggest thing is lots of tube power in the amp, moving a lot of air, with the signal pre-saturated by a good overdrive/distortion pedal. Pickups will make a pretty small difference with this amount of gain, I prefer a hot wound pickup that's vintage PAF style and let the amp and pedals EQ the final tone.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Well, my big thing is, I'm not looking for a massive 120 watt head for what I'm doing. If you can recommend a head that can get what i'm looking for without bein massive, by all means, shoot. Also, the Airis is definitely a quality boost pedal, there's no doubt in my mind that I want one. Plus, I'm not looking for output on my pickups per se... Just a thick, heavy EQ.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

To sound thick and be powerful enough to not be drowned out by a metal drummer, the low watt stuff just isn't as capable. It has to be powerful to sound right for what you want. Look into the new Mesa Triple Crown, 50 watts but still enough power to get close to the right sound with supposedly better distortion than the rectifier series. Not trying to dischourage you but to have truly memorable tone it's not going to be done with bedroom style gear.

P.s. The pickup is the least important thing when running a rig like this. An sh5, distortion, black winter, nazgul will get you in the ballpark though.
 
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Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Well, I'm not auite in a band yet-- see, I've been playing for about two years and I've been trying to get better sounding gear for home use. I understand that huge amps are needed for band use, but if I get some huge metal aml, the big problem is, over a low watt high gain, that it will be way too damn loud in order for ig to sound good. And even then, a lot of gig locations, especially in Richmond VA, where I primarily go to see stuff, have areas to mic up, and wsome will in fact refuse to let you play without being mic'd. So there's that.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Never let a club dictate what your rig is! They don't care what you sound like!

If it is not powerful enough to stand alone with a drummer it's a waste of money. You'll only have to spend more on a different rig when you get in a band. Buy once, cry once.

It still stands though, to sound thick and powerful you have to run a rig that is.

For acceptable tone in ultra low watt they make a 25 watt Mini Rectifier, check out the Orange Dark Terror too.

You can't really have it both ways.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Well, then. Let's throw wattage and volume limits out of the aindow and then hit me with a signal chain that would be to my liking. I don't like Orange cab sounds, and I'm a big fan of the Peavey 6505 amp. The 6505, to me, has PLENTY of midrange and bottom end-- almost too much. One thing I recommend though is checking out the Savage Drive by Airis, it works wonders. But back on topic, assuming I'm going for say, Black Earth-style Arch Enemy, what would be my best bet?
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Sorry, I'm just a firm believer, that loud AF sounds the best. Just like an engine, a 4 cylinder mileage engine is never going to to sound like a cammed big block v8.

The first style of rig I talked about will sound epic. Limitations removed that is.

If you want to sound like a certain band in particular you have to run their gear, or be a pro tools wizard. Look up their rigs and emulate it. I just never heard a Peavey that had top shelf tone, if it's what you want though get it and pedal it up. I've been playing live with metal bands for a long time and have heard 100's of rigs, the only head they made that I ever liked was their XXL.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Checked out the Savage drive, you're good there, I'd want more eq parameter control knobs but if it makes the sound you want that's not a disadvantage. I hadn't heard of that company yet. We live in the golden age of pedals right now for sure.

The Orange cab I was talking about is really similar in voice to the mesa vert cab just a hair deeper. Both are V30 loaded with nearly identical dimensions and cab material construction.

If you don't like the Orange you won't like the 2x12 Mesa much either so don't get one without listening to it. They are so similar that the difference is subtle, that's why I have both, voiced almost identically but the Orange cabinet feet are both like 2' long and tie it to the floor better. They make a great sounding slightly miss matched set for me though.

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Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

@Thundermtn -- I've actually looked into that Fractal pedal. I don't have a lot of data so I can't listen to a demo, but I was on wifi earlier and heard and mini recto demo. That amp KICKS if you put it thriugh a Mesa 2x12. Also, the last Orange Cab I heard was voiced with a lot more midrange and it sounded way too... Compressed is the word, I think. But this demo cab also had Chinese V30's loaded in it, so I may be thinking of a different model.

@Gibson: I'll look into a few demos of it.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...d=Orange212c&gclid=CJHgtc38wtECFQccaQodT4cLlA

This is the one I'm talking about. A smidgen cheaper but no rollers, a few % points deeper in tone.

The mini mesa will be decent loud if you like it. I just always thought the Peavey stuff sounded more sterile with a crunchier thrash metal vibe. Decent but not up the mega thick alley like the modern mesa channel set to run in silicon diode mode. The presence knob moves the sound around substantially with that amp, that's where the thick comes from for me. You can get thicker but the price goes up exponentially from there with other amps.

If I was gearing up from a small rig now the fractal makes sense, modeling has come a LONG way since I built my rig. It sounds great and is hyper versatile, my metal rig is nearly a one trick pony and sometimes I wish I had more versatility.

If you want to hear the sh5 custom, listen to White Zombie's, Astrocreep 2000 album. A bunch of it is played down tuned to C# with a mahogany guitar with the sh5, split through triple rectifiers and randall century 200's.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Mmm. Randall amps. Those are the only solid-state amps i trust that aren't modeling amps.

Airis, by the way, is a Canadian company. I heard their pedal through Glenn Fricker's review of it. The tightness control can almost create two different amps depending on how you use it. It's a really good pedal-- just not for the faint of heart, considering it costs $70 more than a TS9.

See, Orange is cool. I like Orange. But their aesthetic is very love it/hate it, and I happen to be on the latter end of that split. I'd spend more on that cab than I would on the Mesa, because I'd be busy repainting the enclosure, XD

The AX8 and the Axe FX actually are ridiculously good modeling, uh, devices. I can't call them amps because they're a league of their own. In fact, one of my favorite bands exclusively use the FX-II, last I checked.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Right on, I get the color thing. I played as many as I could to find my second cab. It didn't matter if it looked like a pink elephant, as long as it made the sound I wanted. Never had an issue with my mesa cab but had to find a little extra oomph after we opened for a signed band and could hear that the lack of complexity only running a single cab with all the speakers sounding the same. As you build up your gear try to keep all your options open, don't let aethetics trump the tone you're after. If something makes the sound you want for the right price, it's good kit. Sometimes I run a Washburn HB-30 (semi-hollow body ES-335 copy) and that guitar sounds metal AF, it out tones my Gibson V with hotter ceramic pickups.

Welcome to the board by the way and good luck on your tone quest!
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

Haha, thanks.

Yeah dude, I hear you on the whole "need dynamic sound" thing, especially if you're the lone guitarist. Three guitarists using different rigs, even two, it's not bad, but once it gets down to one or two guitars on a single rig, you really need to step up your cab game.

Oh lookee me, we've derailed this from a pickup talk into a cab talk. Ey man, PM me if you wanna talk tone more. You've got a lot of insight.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

I would get your new rig before you decide what your pickup isn't giving you.

For amps, I think a Mesa is just about the best modern metal sound that you can find. Not to say that the Peavey isn't good, but I think Mesa are just better.
 
Re: Looking for some really thick sounds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNCh_tDf66A

Mesa through that Orange just for S&G.

looks like it's being driven by a maxon so it going to be real close to the sound I was talking about but it sounds like he's running the presence pretty high. Dial it back some and it gets thicker.

Went to Mesa and saw that the new recto's have a cut for 50 watts now, epicly more usable. I might be trading out myself.
 
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