Looking for Stratocaster advice...

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Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

AlexR said:
The point I made earlier (and you ignored) is valid. You need WAY more examples than just 2....or 5.....or 500.
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Based on this assertion, any opinion on pickup/ guitar/ amp/ anything expressed in this forum that is based on individual experience, is invalid. Damn..the internet is full of lies!
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

PFDarkside said:
For the OP...

I'm a huge Strat fan. I love everything about them, playability, tone, feel, shape, etc.

The first step is to determine how you want the guitar to feel. Neck radius, fret size, neck shape and size, then build quality you want, then finally the aesthetics and electronics. For me, I like a modern radius (9.5"+) medium jumbo frets (up to 6105) fatter neck, 2-point trem for guitars I use the bar on, 6 screw for those I don't, stamped saddles no matter what then pickups to taste. I have 4 Strats and 3 "basically Strats" (other than he decal)

Once you determine if you want vintage or modern features, the peaks of Fender are:
Squier Classic Vibe & Vintage Modern
Fender MIM Classic 50's/60's & Classic Player's 50's/60's
Fender American Special & American Standard

2 of mine are a FSR AVRI 62 (modern radius & frets) and a Sig model based on a modernized AVRI 62. You obviously don't need to go to those lengths to get a great Strat, but they really encompass what I love about Strats.
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Hey thanks for the advice man. I suppose I've focused too much on specs and electronics over getting out to play them...

I like noodling with circuits/wiring so will likely swap pups in whatever I get..
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Silence Kid said:
*Everything* makes a difference, but I don't think an Affinity has enough changes about it to make a *positive* difference :) An unpainted neck is actually a detractor for me, whatever tonal change occurs.

If OP is still paying attention, the lesson continues to be "try them," although for $400-$500 and requiring fewer immediate upgrades a used American Standard is still a lot surer bet (the price settles a lot of the doubt for me.) They're out there, I got a Deluxe for $500. Or, buy an Affinity if it makes you happy and you can't tell the difference.
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I've been out for a few days but still paying attention :)

Just got caught up on the thread. Definitely appreciate peoples feedback.

Going to try and get out there and try out more models to get a feel for which one to get. I'm leaning towards getting an American Standard - however am not finding anything under 1K out here on CL so might just pick up a new one...
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Obsessive Compulsive said:
Based on this assertion, any opinion on pickup/ guitar/ amp/ anything expressed in this forum that is based on individual experience, is invalid. Damn..the internet is full of lies!
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YAS

"the grain and structure would be different"

Alex, maybe you should go and test 1000 guitars to prove that it's NOT true. Although you continue to imply so, I am not inept. I know plenty about tone and where it comes from. Introducing another material to the guitar is a much larger variable than "grain structure" sorry.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Obsessive Compulsive said:
Based on this assertion, any opinion on pickup/ guitar/ amp/ anything expressed in this forum that is based on individual experience, is invalid. Damn..the internet is full of lies!
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Anyone's opinion is simply that, an opinion.
A pickup is indeed slightly different between individuals. But at least you know that a certain value will produce very consistent results. A .022 cap tested as such will be the same. An amp made with all consistently tested components will produce essentially consistent tonal outcomes.

When you consider organic elements like wood which are considerable variable between individuals you cannot make assertions. Nor can you 'test' to make sure of consistent parameters.

It would be indeed constructive for you to make relevant examples in an argument. That way you might actually contribute in a meaningful way.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Clint 55 said:
Alex, maybe you should go and test 1000 guitars to prove that it's NOT true. Although you continue to imply so, I am not inept. I know plenty about tone and where it comes from. Introducing another material to the guitar is a much larger variable than "grain structure" sorry.
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How have you determined this.
I hope its not just the couple of guitars as mentioned. That indeed would not even pass muster as research for a primary school level science project.

I would like a more detail on all the necks both finished and unfinished you own........plus bodies. Plus all you experience in wood.....how you determine how variable wood can be even between pieces of the same species. Not to mention how shape and size affects tone. So that we can all get an idea on how you have come to the conclusion that a very thin layer (nitro for example is in the order of .03-.05mm) is more important than the whole of the 25-40mm that a body or neck might impart.

To start the experience ball rolling......here are some fretboard I have ready for some scratch builds. Once these are on guitars we'll be looking at close to 50 guitars I own that are built by myself from wood planks.
DSC_0983.jpg

In addition to this there is the matter of the seemingly countless times I swapped fender type necks between bodies and pickup sets trying to find the best matches......yes they did need some permutations to get right and there were quite a few differences with wood combos.

Back to the wood blanks....the 3 left ones are all Amazonian Rosewood. They are part of a batch from Gilmer Wood, cut from the same larger blank. The next 2 are in a similar scenario, but from another batch. All of these blanks are the same dimension, same species and in some cases a saw kerf from being from the identical part of a tree. But they tap-tone differently - quite differently. I'd say a tone and a half between them.......3 steps. Thats a LOT for something that is supposed to be the same......according to you anyhow.


So whats your experience like now.......
 
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Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

The notion that the sum of a guitar's materials determine the total sound is not an opinion, it is a fact. I am smart enough to differentiate between the sound of the guitar itself and the nasal sound produced by a gloss neck. "Grain structure" does not produce a nasal funky sound.

Actually I did come up with a double blind study for you guys. I have 2 affinities with the same wood, same strings, set up the same. They sound completely different unplugged. Why could this be? The answer is that 1 has single coils and the other has 3 humbuckers, 2 of them covered. The difference of the surfaces under the strings around my picking hand are what's creating the difference. 1 the majority is plastic from the pickguard and the other the majority is metal from the hb covers. So there you go. 2 identical guitars sounding different because of a different surface for the strings to resonate off of.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

The magnets of single coils have greater pull which affects the unplugged tone, and even changes the tone to be twangier in say the bridge position of an HSS guitar. That's why people going for greater sustain avoid having magnet polepieces in the guitar altogether, where on the other hand a "dummy" pickup (ex. EVH) makes a difference. That's the key in the above scenario, more than plastic v. metal.

Edit: Although of course it could also be fifteen other particular diffs. between the two guitars... :)
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Clint....see my edit on the last post.

The acoustic tone of a guitar is based not from the strings so much as the vibration of the air from the surface of the body more than any other factor. It has the most surface area to excite the air particles after all. Factors which affect acoustiv tone include a different surface area to vibrate, different material, carved top vs flat, a pickguard, any vacant area if enclosed air under the guard all make differences.

If we didn't know already, the last posts of yours are making it clear, you continually don't seem to consider the full scope of the issue when coming to conclusions.
 
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Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

But the hb guitar is twangier. There you go monkey boy.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Alex, I understand these issues:

"The acoustic tone of a guitar is based not from the strings so much as the vibration of the air from the surface of the body. Different area to vibrate, different material, carved top vs flat, a pickguard, any vacant area if enclosed air under the guard all make differences."

I'm able to separate that out. I'm not inept.

The finished neck fender style guitars I have/have used: Am std strat, Am std p bass, mustang, jaguar,
Unfinished Affinites I'm stoked on: 2 strats, strat mini, p bass.

Very nice picture. If you have all those materials and experience you should easily be able to figure out that coating the neck changes the sound.
 
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Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Clint 55 said:
But the hb guitar is twangier. There you go monkey boy.
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Hell, I've never stuffed three humbucker magnets in a guitar, so uhh I guess either that has more effect than I would anticipate, or else see the Edit in my post above.

Seriously, monkey boy? I've mentioned my race in at least a couple other (I thought) non-memorable threads, so I'd hate to think that's where you're taking it. If that is, I guess I know where we stand on that. Otherwise, please be more clever.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

I was joking man. I have no idea what your ethnicity is. I'm able to separate reason from emotion. Unlike some people.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

What the issue here comprises is that you are convinced that there is a recognisable and consistent tonal shift......For one you have not the data required to make that assertion. For the second point wood does not comprise anything like a consistent baseline to make any such determination - as I have been at continual pains to point out with the real-world experience I have in these things.

And.....unfinished affinity necks - are these necks that have had the finish stripped by you??
As I have said before, nothing made of maple in the Fender lineup will come without finish.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

AlexR said:
Anyone's opinion is simply that, an opinion.


When you consider organic elements like wood which are considerable variable between individuals you cannot make assertions. Nor can you 'test' to make sure of consistent parameters.

It would be indeed constructive for you to make relevant examples in an argument. That way you might actually contribute in a meaningful way.
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Hmmm...I guess the unique, specific tonal qualities attributed to say basswood or mahogany are bullcrap cause wood is organic and it varies from one person to another.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Specific tonal qualities are based on an average. Like all long term averages the typical statistical bell-curve of individual results applies. Hence whilst if you were to consider a maple neck and fretboard would be generally considered to have more top-end than with a rosewood fretboard, its not always the case.....as my personal experience has shown.

Those who also deal with wood on considerably more frequent than a 'I've got 5 guitars' basis also report the same. So do these forums......countless times even in this thread you hear the refrain 'you have to try a lot to see'.

There are quite a few who can only deal is generalisations in life.....maybe the complexity of the actuality is too mindboggling. But the existence of an average does not nullify the range of the results used to obtain that average. Nor does an individual result nullify an average.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

Clint 55 said:
The notion that the sum of a guitar's materials determine the total sound is not an opinion, it is a fact. I am smart enough to differentiate between the sound of the guitar itself and the nasal sound produced by a gloss neck. "Grain structure" does not produce a nasal funky sound.

Actually I did come up with a double blind study for you guys. I have 2 affinities with the same wood, same strings, set up the same. They sound completely different unplugged. Why could this be? The answer is that 1 has single coils and the other has 3 humbuckers, 2 of them covered. The difference of the surfaces under the strings around my picking hand are what's creating the difference. 1 the majority is plastic from the pickguard and the other the majority is metal from the hb covers. So there you go. 2 identical guitars sounding different because of a different surface for the strings to resonate off of.
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Doesn't this experiment supports the argument that there are other factors that contribute to the sound of your guitar? So the nasal sound may be cause by things other than the finish or lack thereof.

The fact is, the sound of a guitar is not only the sum of the material but also the gear used in conjunction with it (amps, pickups, cables, mics).

I don't have the time to read all the posts on this page, but as I said before, you have to do a blind test with all factors being the same except the finish.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

^ Yep OC, thats precisely it. Sums up what I've tried to tell him in the last 10 posts of mine. As he's got his head in the sand I'd hardly expect him to listen, but maybe you can get through to him.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

I'm not going to pay for another strat neck that sounds worse to me. You can go ahead with your highly scientific test of 1000 guitars to learn about something that's extremely intuitive. Changing the build of a guitar changes the sound.

So your premise is that the variation in the physical properties between 2 pieces of wood even of the same species changes sound. But that changing the physical properties of the wood by adding lacquer does not change sound? That doesn't make any sense.
 
Re: Looking for Stratocaster advice...

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